Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[nwdiver]

They do not have the temporal resolution to capture decadal or century level chan

You're right... we just missed it! LOL

 

[Swampgator]

... our ICE core resolution is sufficient to distinguish 280 and 400ppm. No where does a >100ppm rise in <100 years occur.

They do not have the temporal resolution to capture decadal or century level chan

mvdriver - The ice ages were driven by orbital mechanics. Here is a good explanation including the reason for the lag between temperature and CO2 CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?

swamp gator - The reason higher CO2 concentrations in the past didn't overheat the earth was due to decreased solar output. Try hereDo high levels of CO2 in the past contradict the warming effect of CO2?

What I continue to find amazing is the hubris. It's as if people with no background in physics were arguing how relativity was incorrect and all of the physicists were idiots in a grand conspiracy and that the skeptics knew better because the Heartland Institute had told them Einstein was wrong. I enjoy digging into the questions but in the end I defer to people who have spent their lives studying the subject. Do people really believe that, when they present their objections, that they are onto something that climate scientists haven't looked at?

As an aside, it reminds me of when people used an nVidea simulation to justify their belief that we hadn't been to the moon. Then nVidea realized they hadn't taken int account light reflecting off of the photographer's spacesuit. When that was put in, the shadows were lightened to look just like the actual photographs.

I get all of my information from climate scientists. So what is the issue?
Go ahead and defer to authority. Based on your avatar this may be your most comfortable position.

 

[Swampgator]

You're right... we just missed it! LOL


View attachment 423637

You do understand what temporal resolution means, right? In case not, here is the WIKI

Temporal resolution - Wikipedia

 

[nwdiver]

You do understand what temporal resolution means, right? In case not, here is the WIKI

Temporal resolution - Wikipedia

Yep.... this is what must have happened.... we just missed it.... right? Physically impossible but that's kinda your thing. Believing that physically impossible things occur; what else would explain your persistent denial of reality. CO2 jumped up and down ~100ppm in a span of ~100 years. The ice cores just missed it... right? LOL

 

[Swampgator]

Yep.... this is what must have happened.... we just missed it.... right? Physically impossible but that's kinda your thing. Believing that physically impossible things occur; what else would explain your persistent denial of reality. CO2 jumped up and down ~100ppm in a span of ~100 years. The ice cores just missed it... right? LOL

View attachment 423646

The scale of that graph is insufficient to resolve down to 100 years. That is my point.

 

[nwdiver]

The scale of that graph is insufficient to resolve down to 100 years. That is my point.

But you can see that the rate of change is ~100ppm per >1k years NOT ~100ppm per ~100 years. That's my point.

 

[Swampgator]

But you can see that the rate of change is ~100ppm per >1k years NOT ~100ppm per ~100 years. That's my point.

Let me help explain: If I measure a samplesonce every 1000 years, I do not know if CO2 went from 300 to 400ppm in 10 years, or 1000 years. I only know that Co2 was 300ppm at year 1, and 400ppm at year 1000. It could have slowly crept up, or done so more rapidly. This is what is meant by temporal resolution.
If I give you 1 million dollars and you blow it all in 10 years, I don't have enough information to know if you blew it all year 1, or slowly spent it over 10 years.

 

[nwdiver]

Let me help explain: If I measure a samplesonce every 1000 years, I do not know if CO2 went from 300 to 400ppm in 10 years, or 1000 years. I only know that Co2 was 300ppm at year 1, and 400ppm at year 1000. It could have slowly crept up, or done so more rapidly. This is what is meant by temporal resolution.
If I give you 1 million dollars and you blow it all in 10 years, I don't have enough information to know if you blew it all year 1, or slowly spent it over 10 years.

LOL.... no explanation needed... I get it....

It's not physically possible... but I get what you're attempting to describe...

You're right... we just missed it! LOL


View attachment 423637

When the sharpest rise is ~10ppm in ~200 years... it's pretty clear that >100ppm in <100 years didn't occur. But feel free to see if I overlooked a bigger jump.

 

[Mader Levap]

They do not have the temporal resolution to capture decadal or century level change

No one told you that repeating something won't make it any more true?

I guess you imagine situation when something causes CO2 to rise very quickly and then in short amount of time falls equally quickly by roughly same amount (otherwise it would be detected in records). I wonder what "natural" process you think can cause something like that? I don't see you proposing any plausible natural mechanism (hint: nothing like that exist), just repetitive handwave.

Again, current rise of CO2 is extremely unusual because of it's tempo, not it's historical level (though being higher than previously in entire human history counts for something). Only known mechanism for that kind of rise is industrial activity of homo sapiens.

Protip: no, "but but but they could happen, and twice in row, in exactly opposite direction, conveniently under our resolution" is not enough to claim that current tempo of CO2 rising is not unusual. If it was creationist topic, it would be called "god in gaps" argument.

 

[S'toon]

<snip>


This week, the team from JD Composites unveiled its first home in Meteghan River on Nova Scotia's southwest shore. It has walls made with 15-centimetre thick plastic slabs. More than 600,000 recycled plastic bottles were shredded, melted and formed into custom moulds for the walls.

"You're saving the planet. You're saving the oceans. You're taking all this [plastic] out of the environment and making stuff with it," said Saulnier.


The build also came together very quickly. The walls went up in seven hours.

The unique construction process also has unique attributes.

The home's plastic panels were also tested against winds stronger than a Category 5 hurricane. JD Composites says the testing machine maxed out its power and the walls didn't break.

With all of these features, the home still costs about the same as normal construction, the builders said. They didn't specify the exact cost, but said the final cost was less than $400,000, including all furnishings.

<snip>

Full article at:
This house was built using 600,000 recycled plastic bottles

 

[SageBrush]

Again, current rise of CO2 is extremely unusual because of it's tempo

Without precedent, so far as I know. And it should be obvious even to our intrepid denialist that insects adapt better to climate change than human civilization.

 

[nwdiver]

Without precedent, so far as I know.

The Siberian traps ~250M years ago are believed to have hit a large coal seam and emitted absurd amounts of CO2 in a fairly short period of time. This was either the cause or a contributing cause to the greatest mass extinction in the geologic record. >90% of all life on Earth was snuffed out including up to ~96% of all marine species. But this event was unprecedented.

Does an unprecedented event provide precedent?

 

[SageBrush]

Does an unprecedented event provide precedent?

And reassurance ?

I'd say yes ... if I was a cockroach pondering the survival of my species.

 

[mspohr]

Europe heatwave: cities take steps to limit effects of record temperatures

Europe heatwave: cities take steps to limit effects of record temperatures

Scientists have said Europe’s 2019 heatwave, like last year’s, was closely linked to the climate emergency and that such extreme weather events will be many times more likely over the coming decades.

 

[mspohr]

Miami, Drowning and Scorching, Awaits Democrats for Debate Miami, Drowning and Scorching, Awaits Democrats for Debate

Climate change is now among the top three 2020 election issues cited by Florida Democrats, according to a new statewide survey. Some 71 percent of Florida voters, including 85 percent of Democrats, support government action to address climate change

A report published last week by Resilient Analytics and the Center for Climate Integrity, an environmental advocacy group, estimated that Florida could have to build $76 billion worth of sea walls by 2040.

In 2017, Miamians voted for a new tax to pay for some $200 million in climate change projects.

 

[winfield100]

amazing how a low grade, barely sentient AI Bot can hijack a conversation

 

[mspohr]

Sounds like a great deal when you consider the cost of climate disasters and the $3 trillion gulf wars cost

$4.5-Trillion: The Price Tag of A Fossil Fuel-Free U.S. | OilPrice.com

Decarbonizing the U.S. grid and replacing fossil fuels with renewables could cost US$4.5 trillion in investments over the next 10 to 20 years, Wood Mackenzie analysts have calculated.

 

[SageBrush]

Sounds like a great deal when you consider the cost of climate disasters and the $3 trillion gulf wars cost

$4.5-Trillion: The Price Tag of A Fossil Fuel-Free U.S. | OilPrice.com

Decarbonizing the U.S. grid and replacing fossil fuels with renewables could cost US$4.5 trillion in investments over the next 10 to 20 years, Wood Mackenzie analysts have calculated.

Read the source carefully. The last time I came across one of these articles they had discounted the retail value of electricity to zero

 

[jerry33]

Read the source carefully. The last time I came across one of these articles they had discounted the retail value of electricity to zero

Was it really that, or was it just the cost of the infrastructure because the electricity would be paid for as it was used?

 

[SageBrush]

Was it really that, or was it just the cost of the infrastructure because the electricity would be paid for as it was used?

The cost of electricity for PV is close to free; the cost per kWh to the utility (in the case of a PPA, e.g) amortizes the cost of installation.