Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[Skotty]

I still of split mind on climate change. On one hand I want it fixed. On the other, being able to say "I told you so" to all the fools as the world self destructs doesn't sound so bad either. If we fix the problem, people will forever claim it was a hoax. Just like Y2K (something I helped fix, though there are those out there who will never believe it). I'm wavering on wanting to ensure our species is lasting.

EDIT: The above is how I feel. But what is more important is what I can rationalize. As I play out all the scenarios in my head and think about the consequences to both good people and bad people, the right play is to still try to do the right thing based on the available evidence, and that means trying to support actions that will address climate change. Every time I think of giving up, my conscience and logic always seem to bring me back again. How I feel still plays a part. I'm disappointed in humanity in general, but I still have hope we can be better. I think that ultimately is the key.

 

[ZsoZso]

@Not Sure maybe you should organize a raid to arrest the arsonist eucalyptus trees...
According to the locals around Sydney (where I Am since dec.19), it is the eucalyptuses that ignite the fires, and it is a natural, regular phenomenon. Eucalyptus Fire Hazards: Are Eucalyptus Trees Flammable

The current trouble is that the fires are spreading more and harder to control than usual due to drier and hotter conditions.

 

[wjax]

For me this is a really good question:

None of these predictions came true, and aren't even close to coming true,” said Roy Spencer, a climatologist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. “It's amazing that the public can continue to believe apocalyptic predictions despite a 95 percent decline in weather-related deaths in the last 100 years.”


“They say climate change causes everything. Some people try to pin the war on Syria on climate change, and then say when all those people die, that's because of climate change. They have a secondary agenda,” Tupy said.


“When people ask you when was the best time to be alive – the answer is, tomorrow,” he added.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!! I sincerely wish everyone a healthy and happy new year.

You are of course correct. Thanks for bringing in a dose of sanity. Weather related deaths have plummeted but supposedly there is suddenly now a "climate emergency" that is totally not backed up by any credible evidence. But facts inconvenient to the alarmist narrative are always dismissed with emotional hand-waving, condescending insults, and never-ending straw man arguments. I'll grab my popcorn and watch the predictable reaction to your excellent post!

 

[Chopr147]

Heros like Greta are trying to STOP the fires

Nothing against the kid but that's just it, she's a kid with Autism lecturing others.

But facts inconvenient to the alarmist narrative are always dismissed

Usually, it's a : blame the oil industry for any article that contradicts the GW religion.

It's a Tesla forum and Tesla fans are rabid. That's fine but it sure doesn't make 'em smarter.
I have interacted with some really intelligent people on the ChevyTahoe forum. I bet many here believe that is impossible.

 

[winfield100]

Nothing against the kid but that's just it, she's a kid with Autism lecturing others.




Usually, it's a : blame the oil industry for any article that contradicts the GW religion.

It's a Tesla forum and Tesla fans are rabid. That's fine but it sure doesn't make 'em smarter.
I have interacted with some really intelligent people on the ChevyTahoe forum. I bet many here believe that is impossible.

@Chopr147 @wjax
Willful ignorance is not cute,

people everywhere are telling you the planet is on fire, including fires everywhere and your response is
“not my problem, prove it, I don’t believe the proof presented, I refuse to believe that proof, I need more proof”

Willful ignorance is worse than useless, hopefully, you have not successfully procreated

 

[mspohr]

Australia, your country is burning – dangerous climate change is here with you now | Michael Mann

The brown skies I observed in the Blue Mountains this week are a product of human-caused climate change. Take record heat, combine it with unprecedented drought in already dry regions and you get unprecedented bushfires like the ones engulfing the Blue Mountains and spreading across the continent. It’s not complicated.

The warming of our planet – and the changes in climate associated with it – are due to the fossil fuels we’re burning: oil, whether at midnight or any other hour of the day, natural gas, and the biggest culprit of all, coal. That’s not complicated either.

Morrison has shown himself to be beholden to coal interests and his administration is considered to have conspired with a small number of petrostates to sabotage the recent UN climate conference in Madrid (“COP25”), seen as a last ditch effort to keep planetary warming below a level (1.5C) considered by many to constitute “dangerous” planetary warming.

 

[mspohr]

Australian bushfire crisis: global figures and media react to 'climate emergency'

Australian bushfire crisis: global figures and media react to 'climate emergency'

Politicians and climate change activists around the globe have expressed horror at the unfolding Australian bushfire crisis, saying the devastation is an urgent reminder of the climate emergency.

“What is happening in Australia today will become increasingly common around the world if we do not aggressively combat climate change and transform our energy system away from fossil fuels. The future of the planet is at stake. We must act.”

Netflix documentary filmmaker David Farrier, also a Kiwi, tweeted Matthew Abbott’s picture of a kangaroo escaping the flames, along with the words: “2020. you ****ing idiots in charge who don’t get this: global warming is real.

 

[nwdiver]

Nothing against the kid but that's just it, she's a kid with Autism lecturing others.

And she's 110% right. It's now 2020 and describing the level of action and urgency as pathetic would be incredibly generous...

 

[nwdiver]

You are of course correct. Thanks for bringing in a dose of sanity.

Whew... well that's a relief. Hey... can you tell me where my math was wrong? Did I forget to carry a 1 or something? 'Cause I've gone over it several times but if everything is 'ok' there must be an error in there. Where?

@Not Sure

So what's causing the warming if not the increase in CO2?

The radiative imbalance caused by the increase of CO2 from ~280 to ~400 is ~1.5w/m²;

Annually that's (24)(365)(1.5) = 13.14kWh or 4.7E7 Joules

The Earth is ~510M km² or 510E12 m² so the total annual energy added due to CO2 is

(4.7E7)(510E12) = 2.4E22J/yr

Here is the measured heat anomaly of the ocean which is absorbing ~93% of that energy.

View attachment 495015


Either global warming is real or that's one hell of a coincidence.....

'Fun Fact' The bomb dropped in Hiroshima was <7.5E16J... so CO2 is adding more energy every second of everyday. Math... sometimes it's terrifying.

“It's amazing that the public can continue to believe apocalyptic predictions despite a 95 percent decline in weather-related deaths in the last 100 years.”

So that's the only metric that matters? More people are able to find an air conditioned public space to escape rising temperature or evacuate before the flood/fire destroy their house so we can keep our pathetic addiction to fools fuel? The bar is 'Well.... you didn't die'?

Hey; Here's a crazily rational idea.... why not phase out fools fuel with responsible energy sources like wind and solar as quick as we can. In the 0.1% chance physics is wrong.... well... we made the world a better place for nothing. In the 99.9% chance physics is right... well.... our grandkids will sure be glad we weren't sociopathic monsters that didn't care about them....

 

[mspohr]

Nothing against the kid but that's just it, she's a kid with Autism lecturing others.

I have interacted with some really intelligent people on the ChevyTahoe forum. I bet many here believe that is impossible

I've come across some really stupid people on the Tesla forums. Nothing to do with the kind of car you drive.
Dismissing Greta as a kid is stupid when she is clearly smarter than many deniers.

 

[Chopr147]

If you say so

 

[nwdiver]

If you say so

I've never claimed all deniers were morons. Sociopaths are generally very intelligent. I'm sure there's a fair number of deniers that aren't morons... they're just sociopaths. But they're one or the other... that's axiomatic.

 

[Merrill]

I grew up in the 60’s and things got done thru people standing up and revolting. Climate change will effect children like Greta and we need more of them to revolt, you can write her off as being whatever you perceive her to be but as far as I’m concerned she is right on!

 

[DragonWatch]

Maybe they're getting ready to put up some solar panels?

We already had installed solar Maybe mother nature will have her way and drop several unprotected branches on the southeast side of the house now that the cedar is no longer there to slow the wind.

Every tree matters. Even the critters now must clutter the streets with homeless.

 

[nwdiver]

We already had installed solar Maybe mother nature will have her way and drop several unprotected branches on the southeast side of the house now that the cedar is no longer there to slow the wind.

Every tree matters. Even the critters now must clutter the streets with homeless.

Was the tree shading the solar at all? Green spaces are great but sometimes trees next to homes cause more problems than they solve.

My neighbors have a tree that's probably reducing my solar production by ~2kWh/day from October to March. That's ~200lbs of CO2/yr vs ~13lbs/yr the tree sequesters. Not sure how much habitat the one tree is really providing...

I had a co-worker whose south roof was PERFECT for solar but he had 3 shade trees that almost completely shaded the roof. He kind of scoffed at the idea that removing the trees and putting up solar more environmentally sound. ~10 tons of CO2/yr reduction with solar vs ~15kg/yr from the trees...

 

[mspohr]

Was the tree shading the solar at all? Green spaces are great but sometimes trees next to homes cause more problems than they solve.

My neighbors have a tree that's probably reducing my solar production by ~2kWh/day from October to March. That's ~200lbs of CO2/yr vs ~13lbs/yr the tree sequesters. Not sure how much habitat the one tree is really providing...

I've cut down a number of trees that were interfering with my solar. They were also near the house so a fire hazard (I live in a wildfire danger area. Probably net reduction for CO2
The Conservancy also thinned a large tract in the woods behind my house to reduce wildfire danger. It would be interesting to see some study of the carbon storage gain/loss from these actions. In the forest, it opens up to more light so more growth. I wonder if this compensates for the loss of the thinned trees?

 

[nwdiver]

I wonder if this compensates for the loss of the thinned trees?

I suspect that's a complicated question. I don't think a 'healthy' forest and a forest maximizing CO2 sequestration are necessarily the same thing. In many ways a 'healthy' forest may be worse for CO2... it's more stable. For CO2 you probably want trees that grow fast and die young.

 

[winfield100]

If you say so

So

 

[SR22pilot]

Nothing against the kid but that's just it, she's a kid with Autism lecturing others.

What a sad comment. Do you feel that putting down others somehow raises you up?

 

[dhrivnak]

Oh that's easy. It wasn't just a "few people" sucked into the global cooling scare it was leading climatologist at universities, NASA, and even the CIA who was concerned enough to write a paper on the subject:

The western world’s leading climatologists have confirmed recent reports of a detrimental global climate change. The stability of most nations is based upon a dependable source of food, but this stability will not be possible under the new climatic era. A forecast by the University of Wisconsin projects that the earth’s climate is returning to that of the neo-boreal era (1600- 1850) – an era of drought, famine and political unrest in the western world.

http://www.climatemonitor.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/1974.pdf

So they were wrong then but you don't think they can be wrong again?

Actually it WAS just a few people, or more specifically very few climate scientists. As it turns out the majority of climate scientists thought we should be heating rather than cooling, but the SO2 put out by the burning of coal was reflecting sunlight and causing the more serious acid rain. We cleaned up the acid rain issue by scrubbing the SO2 out of the coal emissions. Warming continued as expected now that it was no longer masked by SO2.