Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[jimm01]

The most annoying thing about rooftop solar, to me, is that I like complex houses with complex roofs and neighborhoods with large mature trees, whereas rooftop solar works best with limited or immature trees and basic shaped houses with simple roofs. I could use a house with a field in back where I can install ground level solar, but hard to find reasonably priced property of that size that is still serviced by city sewer and city services like fiber internet.

Roof architecture (complexity) comes and goes, think Victorian and Craftsman. Not only is an architecturally ornate roof a bear to work on, the real issue occurs if there are problems. The more complex a roof is the more potential there is for leaks, (Occam’s razor applies). Tracking a leak on a complex roof may take some effort—then there’s fixing it. A more complex roof equates to more flashing and that’s were most leaks occur.

Although modern materials make shingling a complex roof relatively easier (still no fun) they are also not as resilient. This makes workmanship more critical, however in my experience the opposite is true. With cost reduction being the goal speed is the primary motive since it has a direct relationship to the cost of labor. Due mostly to construction and not materials a life time for a modern house is 25 years give or take. Not all new homes are built this way (watch This Old House). But if Tom Silva and the boys aren’t supervising, good luck.

 

[jimm01]

Solar is so cheap that you don't need 100%

The only possible cavate could be the total carbon foot print, from cradle to grave. Efficiency and life expectancy can help balance the carbon neutral equation.

 

[mspohr]

Roof architecture (complexity) comes and goes, think Victorian and Craftsman. Not only is an architecturally ornate roof a bear to work on, the real issue occurs if there are problems. The more complex a roof is the more potential there is for leaks, (Occam’s razor applies). Tracking a leak on a complex roof may take some effort—then there’s fixing it. A more complex roof equates to more flashing and that’s were most leaks occur.

Although modern materials make shingling a complex roof relatively easier (still no fun) they are also not as resilient. This makes workmanship more critical, however in my experience the opposite is true. With cost reduction being the goal speed is the primary motive since it has a direct relationship to the cost of labor. Due mostly to construction and not materials a life time for a modern house is 25 years give or take. Not all new homes are built this way (watch This Old House). But if Tom Silva and the boys aren’t supervising, good luck.

I just built a new house. Shed roof completely flat. No peaks or valleys. Membrane covering. Love the simple line.
(Still, I didn't put solar on it due to shading. Ground mount solar.)

 

[mspohr]

The climate crisis will create two classes: those who can flee, and those who cannot | Peter Gleick

Dismayed by the realization that the climate crisis is going to produce two classes of refugees: those with the freedom and financial resources to try, for a while at least, to flee from growing threats in advance, and those who will be left behind to suffer the consequences in the form of illness, death and destruction.

Just as millions migrated over the past half-century from the colder north to sunny, warm communities in Florida, Arizona, New Mexico and southern California, we will certainly see a massive reverse migration in the coming half century away from the coasts, extreme heat and water shortages to places thought to be more favorable. We’re already seeing refugees on the southern border of the US fleeing countries suffering from drought and disasters. If greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated, some models suggest that more than a million climate refugees may move from Central America and Mexico to the United States.

 

[jimm01]

The climate crisis will create two classes: those who can flee, and those who cannot | Peter Gleick

Dismayed by the realization that the climate crisis is going to produce two classes of refugees: those with the freedom and financial resources to try, for a while at least, to flee from growing threats in advance, and those who will be left behind to suffer the consequences in the form of illness, death and destruction.

Just as millions migrated over the past half-century from the colder north to sunny, warm communities in Florida, Arizona, New Mexico and southern California, we will certainly see a massive reverse migration in the coming half century away from the coasts, extreme heat and water shortages to places thought to be more favorable. We’re already seeing refugees on the southern border of the US fleeing countries suffering from drought and disasters. If greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated, some models suggest that more than a million climate refugees may move from Central America and Mexico to the United States.

Reminds me of a conservation I had recently where the person essentially stated: "So what if the climate changes I'll adapt". This assumes there is no resulting completion for resources (scarcity/supply/demand), and in the chain of causal effects something doesn't bite one in the ass. Nevertheless, this illustrates how one rationalizes events by totally discounting reason and adding a healthy supply of fallacious anecdotes.

 

[mspohr]

Reminds me of a conservation I had recently where the person essentially stated: "So what if the climate changes I'll adapt". This assumes there is no resulting completion for resources (scarcity/supply/demand), and in the chain of causal effects something doesn't bite one in the ass. Nevertheless, this illustrates how one rationalizes events by totally discounting reason and adding a healthy supply of fallacious anecdotes.

I agree. I think the article missed this point. There is no escape. There is nowhere safe.

 

[JRP3]

Reminds me of a conservation I had recently where the person essentially stated: "So what if the climate changes I'll adapt"

Most people can't even comprehend the idea of the potential impact to our food and water supplies which could happen due to climate change. Their thinking is limited to just dealing with hotter weather and maybe some coastal flooding. How do you adapt to the desertification of a large section of our farmland, or flooding of the same from changing weather patterns? Or decimation of pollinators? We simply don't know what rapid climate change might do but it's not likely to be good.

 

[mspohr]

Most people can't even comprehend the idea of the potential impact to our food and water supplies which could happen due to climate change. Their thinking is limited to just dealing with hotter weather and maybe some coastal flooding. How do you adapt to the desertification of a large section of our farmland, or flooding of the same from changing weather patterns? Or decimation of pollinators? We simply don't know what rapid climate change might do but it's not likely to be good.

Some people think that warmer temperatures will lead to more food production at higher latitudes. Sounds plausible but the evidence so far is that higher temperatures lead to lower food production.
It's difficult to predict changes in the very complex interactions of our climate.
Wealth can provide some protection but it may be at the cost of living in a fortified cave.

 

[Skotty]

The climate crisis will create two classes: those who can flee, and those who cannot | Peter Gleick

Dismayed by the realization that the climate crisis is going to produce two classes of refugees: those with the freedom and financial resources to try, for a while at least, to flee from growing threats in advance, and those who will be left behind to suffer the consequences in the form of illness, death and destruction.

Just as millions migrated over the past half-century from the colder north to sunny, warm communities in Florida, Arizona, New Mexico and southern California, we will certainly see a massive reverse migration in the coming half century away from the coasts, extreme heat and water shortages to places thought to be more favorable. We’re already seeing refugees on the southern border of the US fleeing countries suffering from drought and disasters. If greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated, some models suggest that more than a million climate refugees may move from Central America and Mexico to the United States.

It would be worthwhile for climate concerned folks to start making narratives primarily about being overrun with immigrants from southern countries if we don't start to take action, potentially causing all sorts of problems with language, American job loss, strain on public support systems, and imported diseases, It's a stupid argument, and it might just work.

 

[mspohr]

It would be worthwhile for climate concerned folks to start making narratives primarily about being overrun with immigrants from southern countries if we don't start to take action, potentially causing all sorts of problems with language, American job loss, strain on public support systems, and imported diseases, It's a stupid argument, and it might just work.

Probably best to not stoke the immigrant fear/hate narrative. There's enough of that already. I doubt it will change people's minds about climate change... just prompt them to build walls.

 

[cpa]

Some people think that warmer temperatures will lead to more food production at higher latitudes. Sounds plausible but the evidence so far is that higher temperatures lead to lower food production.
It's difficult to predict changes in the very complex interactions of our climate.
Wealth can provide some protection but it may be at the cost of living in a fortified cave.

Hear! Hear!

Food crops have diverse growing conditions. Some crops can adapt or survive. Others cannot. One of the trickier aspects is day length. Sure, maybe cabbage can grow in Alaska with its 65-day season due to 20-hour days in June and July, but other crops may not be so receptive to long days.

Pollinators may not coincide with the growing season if they emerge before or after the crops require pollination because of temperature.

When it comes to food, there is more to their growth patterns than temperature.

 

[JRP3]

It’s so hot that Canada’s sea creatures are cooking to death in their shells

Extreme heat caused the death of what one marine biologist estimates to be roughly one billion animals in the Salish Sea.

www.thestar.com

“Marine mussels, the ones that are dying here, just like freshwater mussels, they’re filter feeders so they do clear out particles in the water and make the water a little clearer,” explained Harley, adding that mussels are in the middle of the food web.

“They grab plankton that’s floating around in the water and use it to grow and then they feed other things on the shore so they sort of connect the open water habitat to the shoreline.”

Death of a mass amount of mussels will also impact other animals that rely on them for food like starfish and sea ducks that migrate back and forth from Alaska.

 

[mspohr]

Can you escape mosquitoes?

Climate crisis ‘may put 8bn at risk of malaria and dengue’

More than 8 billion people could be at risk of malaria and dengue fever by 2080 if greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise unabated, a new study says.


Move North to Canada?

‘Heat dome’ probably killed 1bn marine animals on Canada coast, experts say

British Columbia scientist says heat essentially cooked mussels: ‘The shore doesn’t usually crunch when you walk’

www.theguardian.com

 

[mspohr]

Canada is facing extreme weather. And Trudeau’s love of fossil fuel will only make it worse | Tzeporah Berman

After recording the country’s highest ever temperatures of 49.6C, the town of Lytton in British Columbia, Canada, burst into flames. Residents had minutes to flee a “wall of fire” with nothing but the clothing on their backs. Like people in many other places in the world struggling with heatwaves, fires, droughts and strange extreme storms, BC residents now know what it feels like to live in a changing climate on an increasingly inhospitable planet.

It’s also the anger you feel when you know that our government has utterly failed to take the actions necessary to keep us safe. The most recent data, despite the Trudeau government’s claims of climate leadership, shows that Canada has made no progress in reducing emissions. Canada’s emissions are higher today than they were in 1990 and Canada is performing worse on climate change than any other G7 country.

The distortion of the debate is so remarkable – not only in Canada but internationally – that we are somehow still trying to convince ourselves that it is OK to finance and build more fossil fuel infrastructure, oil sands pipelines, offshore drilling and LNG plants while talking about committing to “net-zero” emissions.

 

[Texas Electric]

When it comes to the environment, I think way too much resources are spent on dealing with carbon dioxide. Would our tax dollars be better spent on cleaning the emissions of coal burning plants worldwide? Deal with the real pollutants like all of the unfiltered ash that gets spewed into the air from China and South Asia. Old ICE vehicles that don’t completely burn gasoline and diesel spew a lot of pollutants as well. Maybe if we focus on getting those vehicles off the road instead of eliminating all ICE vehicles would be a more efficient use of our tax dollars. I think ICE will be gone within a few generations. But in the meantime, I think it would be more practical to focus on the ICE vehicles that are spewing smoke out of their tailpipes.

 

[JRP3]

When it comes to the environment, I think way too much resources are spent on dealing with carbon dioxide. Would our tax dollars be better spent on cleaning the emissions of coal burning plants worldwide?

Which are also the worst carbon emitters. Focusing on CO2 is an easy way to reduce all harmful emissions.

 

[mspohr]

When it comes to the environment, I think way too much resources are spent on dealing with carbon dioxide. Would our tax dollars be better spent on cleaning the emissions of coal burning plants worldwide? Deal with the real pollutants like all of the unfiltered ash that gets spewed into the air from China and South Asia. Old ICE vehicles that don’t completely burn gasoline and diesel spew a lot of pollutants as well. Maybe if we focus on getting those vehicles off the road instead of eliminating all ICE vehicles would be a more efficient use of our tax dollars. I think ICE will be gone within a few generations. But in the meantime, I think it would be more practical to focus on the ICE vehicles that are spewing smoke out of their tailpipes.

CO2 is the main cause of climate change. We must address it by stopping the burning of fossil fuels.
The other pollutants you mention (unfiltered ash, old ICE vehicles, etc.) will stop if we stop burning fossil fuels.

 

[Texas Electric]

CO2 is the main cause of climate change. We must address it by stopping the burning of fossil fuels.
The other pollutants you mention (unfiltered ash, old ICE vehicles, etc.) will stop if we stop burning fossil fuels.

I think we can all agree the days of ICE are numbered. As a Tesla owner, I most certainly see that coming. But the reality is that not everybody is as fortunate as you and me. Not everybody can afford a Tesla. Coercing the working class to buy BEVs will be met with opposition far exceeding the oil industry. Why not channel our green energy resources to get the “incomplete combustion engines” off the road first? In Harris County, TX we have to get our vehicles inspected annually. This includes an emissions test. If the test fails, we have to get our cars tuned up, or just junk them. The poor are the ones who have difficulty paying for the repairs, so they just drive their old smokey cars around after failing inspection. With the billions of green energy money flowing around, I think that would be a good practical use of our tax dollars. Help the poor get out of their old smokey cars by either repairing them or get them in a clean burning car. Buying BEVs for them might be a wee bit costly for right now. But as BEVs become more mass produced, the price will come down. What do you think?

 

[mspohr]

I think we can all agree the days of ICE are numbered. As a Tesla owner, I most certainly see that coming. But the reality is that not everybody is as fortunate as you and me. Not everybody can afford a Tesla. Coercing the working class to buy BEVs will be met with opposition far exceeding the oil industry. Why not channel our green energy resources to get the “incomplete combustion engines” off the road first? In Harris County, TX we have to get our vehicles inspected annually. This includes an emissions test. If the test fails, we have to get our cars tuned up, or just junk them. The poor are the ones who have difficulty paying for the repairs, so they just drive their old smokey cars around after failing inspection. With the billions of green energy money flowing around, I think that would be a good practical use of our tax dollars. Help the poor get out of their old smokey cars by either repairing them or get them in a clean burning car. Buying BEVs for them might be a wee bit costly for right now. But as BEVs become more mass produced, the price will come down. What do you think?

Give them EVs.
Junk ICE cars. We can't wait for them to wear out.

 

[SmartElectric]

With the billions of green energy money flowing around, I think that would be a good practical use of our tax dollars. Help the poor get out of their old smokey cars by either repairing them or get them in a clean burning car.

History:

Car Allowance Rebate System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The researchers found that CARS prevented 4.4 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions, representing an estimated 0.4% of the annual U.S. emissions from light-duty vehicles