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Confirmed... Model 3 will have ludicrous mode

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I don't care if it can beat any car on a track or in a long race. I just want to step on the accelerator and get to speed as quickly as possible in real use cases, which for me would be 0-45 or so from traffic lights. Looks like the P90DL can do that between 1.5-2.0 seconds, and that to me is simply amazing.
 
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And what apparently goes over your head is how ridiculous it is to presume that Tesla Motors would release the car that was designed specifically to dethrone the BMW 3-Series without addressing a means to do so in every conceivable manner imaginable. You also overlook how in recent years, BMW has been caught, and surpassed, by numerous competitors. There is no reason to presume that Tesla Motors will not do so as well with Model ☰.
It's not a "BMW" thing, it's a general sports/performance car market thing. Tesla may very well come up with options that allow a trackable model 3, which would make it competitive among existing players in that market, but they have not shown any interest. This is understandable because it doesn't represent a significant portion of potential sales.
 
It's not a "BMW" thing, it's a general sports/performance car market thing. Tesla may very well come up with options that allow a trackable model 3, which would make it competitive among existing players in that market, but they have not shown any interest. This is understandable because it doesn't represent a significant portion of potential sales.
There will be a PERFORMANCE edition of Model ☰ and it will have LUDICROUS mode for those who choose to order it. It will be designed as a road car. And on the road, it will defeat... EVERYTHING. And when it comes to instrumented tests on a closed circuit...? It will match, surpass, and SHATTER anything that a stock BMW 3-Series or M3 is capable of managing. Sure, you will (probably) be able to take a race-prepped, boosted turbo, stripped, windowless, carbon fibre bodied, roll cage and fire suppression system equipped, no rear seats, no passenger seat entirely street illegal version of the M3 to the track and hope to establish the track dominance of ICE over a stock Model ☰ P100D or whatever. For a couple of years. Maybe. If that long. But very shortly afterward it will be OVER. Get ready to put your baby in a museum. And leave it there. You have been warned.
 
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I don't care if it can beat any car on a track or in a long race. I just want to step on the accelerator and get to speed as quickly as possible in real use cases, which for me would be 0-45 or so from traffic lights. Looks like the P90DL can do that between 1.5-2.0 seconds, and that to me is simply amazing.
I'm much more interested in the next light being green.

And of all the published metrics, one always catches my attention: the Cd
 
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And when it comes to instrumented tests on a closed circuit...? It will match, surpass, and SHATTER anything that a stock BMW 3-Series or M3 is capable of managing.
The only instrument would be a timer for a road course. Given the recent performance for the Model S on the Nurburgring, I am doubtful that the Model 3 would be able to match any performance oriented sports car. It's simply not designed to do so and that's OK, really. There's still a lot they'd need to figure out to be competitive in that market, and it's not surprising if it's not planned by Tesla.
 
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Well, if there is *anybody* here who has not test-driven a model S with ludicrous mode, do it now. Yes, it was amazing as hell, but it literally made me sick. Just think of the money I saved that I can put into other options! I'm not saying it's crap, because it's totally amazing. Just not for me.

I agree. I was totally impressed with the acceleration, but it only cuts like .3 seconds off the already incredible acceleration of the P90D. I had a headache all day after my test ride. I will spend money on upgrades for sure, but since I am not racing this car it is just overkill for me.
 
There will be a PERFORMANCE edition of Model ☰ and it will have LUDICROUS mode for those who choose to order it. It will be designed as a road car. And on the road, it will defeat... EVERYTHING. And when it comes to instrumented tests on a closed circuit...? It will match, surpass, and SHATTER anything that a stock BMW 3-Series or M3 is capable of managing. Sure, you will (probably) be able to take a race-prepped, boosted turbo, stripped, windowless, carbon fibre bodied, roll cage and fire suppression system equipped, no rear seats, no passenger seat entirely street illegal version of the M3 to the track and hope to establish the track dominance of ICE over a stock Model ☰ P100D or whatever. For a couple of years. Maybe. If that long. But very shortly afterward it will be OVER. Get ready to put your baby in a museum. And leave it there. You have been warned.
Wow, these are very bold statements. I can't fathom how you come to this conclusion.

I'd certainly welcome this but I have zero expectation that the most capable Model 3 will be a match for something like a stock M3 in a high performance environment. The inescapable challenge is that the M3 is still going to be 300-500lbs lighter than the 3 PxxDL.
 
The only instrument would be a timer for a road course. Given the recent performance for the Model S on the Nurburgring, I am doubtful that the Model 3 would be able to match any performance oriented sports car. It's simply not designed to do so and that's OK, really. There's still a lot they'd need to figure out to be competitive in that market, and it's not surprising if it's not planned by Tesla.
Seven minutes, thirty seconds. You heard it here, first.
 
Wow, these are very bold statements. I can't fathom how you come to this conclusion.

I'd certainly welcome this but I have zero expectation that the most capable Model 3 will be a match for something like a stock M3 in a high performance environment. The inescapable challenge is that the M3 is still going to be 300-500lbs lighter than the 3 PxxDL.
show me the video.. I have seen countless videos of Tesla's beating just about every car out there in a 1/4 mile. I believe a Ludacris M3 will be more than a match for any BMW at a stoplight, that's about as "high performance environment" as most of us will ever get, I'll take it....
 
Wow, these are very bold statements. I can't fathom how you come to this conclusion.
Check my signature. I am bold. BMW has, for several years, gotten by with the ratings for the handling on all their automobiles, and especially the 3-Series. In has been beaten in that area by multiple vehicles of late.

The typical mantra goes something like, "It has become a better car, but a worse BMW." Sure, rather trite, as similar statements have been made about Ferrari and Porsche vehicles in the past decade or so. But this time, I believe them. Because those guys friggin' LOVE the BMW 3-Series, and it absolutely breaks their poor little hearts to deliver the news each and every time they get beaten. Beaten so bad, that even they have to admit it.

Because for a very long time, automotive journalists would time and again hand the WIN to BMW even if the 3-Series had lost every single instrumented test. In the end, it all came down to that old, familiar 'feel'. What they called the 'BMW feel' -- that communication between the chassis, the road, and the steering wheel -- that told them all they wanted to know was all that was needed to tip the scales in their favor... Every time.

And now? Two things happened: The BMW feels different, and other cars feel BETTER. Yes, even BETTER than they remembered the BMW feeling before it changed. Other cars are more FUN that the BMW ever was too.

So, armed with that knowledge, Tesla Motors is at a considerable advantage. They can not only use the previous benchmark that is the BMW 3-Series... But they can ALSO examine the details and techniques and strategies that all the other cars used to DEFEAT them! They can use that information to create driving profiles and handling and power delivery and torque curves and suspension geometry and tire wheel combinations and use analysis of yaw and pitch to determine exactly what the TESLA version of a BMW killer will look like going forward. And where BMW might decide to boost horsepower and sacrifice fuel economy for a new model year, a simple over-the-air software update can tweak a Tesla to kick their [BUM] anyway. Because even the best car that Tesla Motors has on the road is probably never delivering more than 80% of what the drivetrain is actually capable of managing.

I'd certainly welcome this but I have zero expectation that the most capable Model 3 will be a match for something like a stock M3 in a high performance environment. The inescapable challenge is that the M3 is still going to be 300-500lbs lighter than the 3 PxxDL.
I wouldn't count on that. Do not be surprised if the Tesla Model ☰ is at least as close to the M3 in weight as... Oh, the other cars that kicked its butt. In any case, I certainly doubt the Tesla will weigh more than a Mercedes-AMG SL65, and those do alright. Don't they?
 
Well, if there is *anybody* here who has not test-driven a model S with ludicrous mode, do it now. Yes, it was amazing as hell, but it literally made me sick. Just think of the money I saved that I can put into other options! I'm not saying it's crap, because it's totally amazing. Just not for me.

I haven't test ride one, but I love roller coaster rides.
 
Seven minutes, thirty seconds. You heard it here, first.
Red, nothing would make me happier than seeing such a figure. But the one thing missing so far from Tesla's option list that will be essential to do this (or lap competitively anywhere for that matter) is a "track pack" cooling system. Without it it will shut down the party to avoid cooking the inverters just like the S does currently. As only a small number of even the full-on PxxDL Model 3's will ever see regular track use I don't think it makes sense to make it standard. But here's hoping that that it's at least an option. If not then I see a great opportunity for some tuning company in the aftermarket.
 
Red, nothing would make me happier than seeing such a figure. But the one thing missing so far from Tesla's option list that will be essential to do this (or lap competitively anywhere for that matter) is a "track pack" cooling system. Without it it will shut down the party to avoid cooking the inverters just like the S does currently. As only a small number of even the full-on PxxDL Model 3's will ever see regular track use I don't think it makes sense to make it standard. But here's hoping that that it's at least an option. If not then I see a great opportunity for some tuning company in the aftermarket.
While this is true, the problem is that battery packs need to be kept cool, but within a rather narrow optimum range, between about 65° F and 95° F. With an ICE, the range is much wider, from about 200° F to nearly 500° F, depending upon if it is water cooled or air cooled. The fact that the Tesla Model S is as capable as it is, with its internals essentially being at room temperature, is absolutely astounding.

The problem isn't really the cooling system, so much as Tesla Motors' firm commitment to longevity and durability. The system shuts down so that you don't break it. An ICE will just give you a warning, then let you break it anyway.

Perhaps the time will come when a new battery chemistry/technology appears, that allows a wider range of operation, while still providing the energy/power density that is necessary for a Performance EV. In fact, even if it could survive LOWER temperatures, it would help a lot. Because then Tesla Motors engineers could just supercool the entire assembly. It may not be possible to build a system that would operate at 200° to 500° though...
 
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... An ICE will just give you a warning, then let you break it anyway....

I'm not sure how long that has been true, but I know it was false for some ICE cars for 20 years. Cadillac drove their Northstar engine across Death Valley with no coolant in the engine. Really.

The engines derate. It's called Limp Home mode, and there are tables in the ECM for it. It was one of the benefits of fly-by-wire.
 
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Aluminum was magic in the auto industry 10 years ago, but has since lost most it's edge.

What are you talking about? Aluminum has the same properties today as it did 10 years ago, as does steel; those properties being different between the two metals. The reasons to use aluminum over steel goes beyond weight difference. No magic involved at anytime in history.
 
What are you talking about? Aluminum has the same properties today as it did 10 years ago, as does steel; those properties being different between the two metals. The reasons to use aluminum over steel goes beyond weight difference. No magic involved at anytime in history.

EDIT - OPPSS!!! Nobody uses pure aluminum for structural designs, it's all special alloys. And steel is always an alloy. There is no such thing as the element steel.

Alloys, fab tech, and designs are constantly changing for both aluminum and steel.

It's something people don't understand about manufacturing. They think it's primitive technology compared to stock speculation or social media marketing analysis. Few people know that large improvements were made in metallurgy in the last 20 years.

There are still scientists and engineers working every day to make stronger aluminum and steel products, and people working to make them cheaper as well.
 
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I don't care if it can beat any car on a track or in a long race. I just want to step on the accelerator and get to speed as quickly as possible in real use cases, which for me would be 0-45 or so from traffic lights. Looks like the P90DL can do that between 1.5-2.0 seconds, and that to me is simply amazing.


For me, it's 5-65 on short on-ramps. There are some around me that you have to have a deathwish to attempt to use.

In my younger days, when I drove terrible cars, I would drive 5 minutes out of my way to get on the highway at a safer onramp. :cool:
 
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Without it it will shut down the party to avoid cooking the inverters just like the S does currently.
Actually, I'm not sure we really know why the car shuts down, or what the trigger is. Or at least we didn't know last I looked.

The car could be monitoring temperatures, or it could be just based on duty cycle (ie, "no more than 2 min @ full throttle every 10 min"); we don't really know the weakest link.

I'd also have a hard time seeing the car make it through a typical track day (4 sessions, ~25 min each) on a charge. Maybe if you head over to RV parking (which a lot of tracks have, either for spectators or racers) and plug into a 14-50 for 90 min of charge. Maybe.

EDIT:
Seven minutes, thirty seconds. You heard it here, first.
For those not familiar, 7:30 is pretty rarified air. Few production sports cars do that:

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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