Coronavirus

[SageBrush]

The best way to deal with this is simple. 1) Over 60 or "at risk" then self isolate.

You may be surprised to learn that a large fraction of populace over age 60 or with risk factors lives with people under age 60 without risk factors.
Second, "at risk" is very common in the US

What you call "simple" is in fact simple in one respect: your plan is guaranteed to be a health disaster.

 

[SageBrush]

ECMO device

You bring up bad memories. We treated dozens of severe Hantavirus patients with ECMO during an outbreak. What a nasty machine.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm curious, how many on this board have lost their job? Their healthcare? Their retirement? Their home?

I'm a retired airline pilot, Cv has been a walk in the park for me personally. But my friends still in the industry are a few months away from losing their jobs, retirement plans and healthcare. If they don't have savings or a lot of equity in their homes, those will be gone too. Car payments? ... no choice but to walk away. Going from 200K plus per year to unemployable is going to destroy a lot of these people. Kid in private school? ... not gonna happen.

It finally hit me early this week that, as a society, we'd rather let the economy collapse than suffer the losses of runaway CV. Flight attendants please return to your seats, passengers please check that your seatbelts are securely fastened ... this is going to be a very rough ride.

People are perfectly free to take flights right now. I don't think it's practical for the government to force people to fly, probably better to get rid of the virus.

Just looked it up. I can fly to Newark nonstop for $283 round trip from San Diego. Deal of the century, better book it before it's too late.

 

[dfwatt]

The best way to deal with this is simple. 1) Over 60 or "at risk" then self isolate. Everybody else back to work. 2) When we have adequate herd immunity, treatment or cure then those that have self isolated will start returning to the pack.

The whole financial system, food production, social safety net, medical community, industry, church etc. are dependent on a functioning economy. Farmer can't borrow money to buy seed - no crop gets planted. Company that makes seed gets cut off by the bank - no seed gets produced. The trucking company fails - crops don't get transported. If we wait too long, the banking system will seize and it'll be too late. It may be too late already. Good luck.

Stick to advice about flying planes. Leave the epidemiology to the professionals and real experts. We'll all be safer that way. You wouldn't want the epidemiologist deciding gee it sure would be fun to land that airplane full of people would you? Both forms of crossover look pretty disastrous to me.

PS. See earlier in the thread where it is made obvious that comorbidities are at least as important as age. So everybody with hypertension, obesity, type 2 diabetes, recent cancers, coronary artery disease, kidney disease, and probably a bunch of other conditions or biomarkers that we can't specify has a bad outcome, defined as severe illness with hospitalization, and high risk of mortality. So in that sense your advice is incredibly uninformed.

PPS please also see informed discussions about how unless you can do testing, contact tracing, isolation, and get your R subscript value well under one, people will not feel safe enough to resume normal economic activity. In that sense you are presenting a demonstrably false dichotomy between health and economy. Only by protecting People's Health will you in fact be able to restore the economy. I know this is the boring shi- coming from those geeky pointed headed epidemiologists. What do they know?.

 

[SageBrush]

It finally hit me early this week that, as a society, we'd rather let the economy collapse than suffer the losses of runaway CV

Runaway Covid-19 will destroy the economy.

You better hope for a 3rd choice. I suggest looking towards Asia

 

[EVNow]

The best way to deal with this is simple. 1) Over 60 or "at risk" then self isolate. Everybody else back to work. 2) When we have adequate herd immunity, treatment or cure then those that have self isolated will start returning to the pack.

And everyone at a higher risk, like
- BMI > 25
- Respiratory problems
- Diabetes, Hypertension, Hyperlipidemia
- Any immunity related problems

I believe that leaves about 30% to 40% going back to work in US ?

 

[TEG]

I'm waiting for some moron to try a bleach enema. Seriously, and all kidding aside, Trump's moronic comments are going to induce at least several people if not more into doing something that results in their death.

Debunking President Magufuli's false claims that inhaling steam cures COVID-19 - GOTTA.news

http://www.openculture.com/2016/04/...ction-kit-8-tools-for-skeptical-thinking.html

...Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts...

 

[MXLRplus]

I'm curious, how many on this board have lost their job? Their healthcare? Their retirement? Their home?

I'm a retired airline pilot, Cv has been a walk in the park for me personally. But my friends still in the industry are a few months away from losing their jobs, retirement plans and healthcare. If they don't have savings or a lot of equity in their homes, those will be gone too. Car payments? ... no choice but to walk away. Going from 200K plus per year to unemployable is going to destroy a lot of these people. Kid in private school? ... not gonna happen.

It finally hit me early this week that, as a society, we'd rather let the economy collapse than suffer the losses of runaway CV. Flight attendants please return to your seats, passengers please check that your seatbelts are securely fastened ... this is going to be a very rough ride.

It's a typical attitude we are up against, the Let Them Eat Cake syndrome. They see no downside because currently their income is protected. But it won't be forever. They do not understand the economy of a nation. Even government workers and pensions are not protected when you go past a certain point. Ask any nation who suffered runaway inflation due to economic calamity. A $4k a month pension won't help you if $4000 only covers the cost of food.

 

[jhm]

For the per capita chart freaks have you seen the Homicide rate in Vatican City?

This is no more skewed than had the plotting unit been counts.

 

[Daniel in SD]

And everyone at a higher risk, like
- BMI > 25
- Respiratory problems
- Diabetes, Hypertension, Hyperlipidemia
- Any immunity related problems

I believe that leaves about 30% to 40% going back to work in US ?

You left out people living with older relatives or other people at high risk. That's a whole lot of the lower income work force.

It's a typical attitude we are up against, the Let Them Eat Cake syndrome. They see no downside because currently their income is protected. But it won't be forever. They do not understand the economy of a nation. Even government workers and pensions are not protected when you go past a certain point. Ask any nation who suffered runaway inflation due to economic calamity. A $4k a month pension won't help you if $4000 only covers the cost of food.

No, most of us just think that the "herd immunity" strategy would also be economically devastating even if you put zero value on human life.

 

[MXLRplus]

You left out people living with older relatives or other people at high risk. That's a whole lot of the lower income work force.

No, most of us just think that the "herd immunity" strategy would also be economically devastating even if you put zero value on human life.

So you think soup lines and poverty is going to fix the epidemic? I don't.

 

[ZachF]

And everyone at a higher risk, like
- BMI > 25
- Respiratory problems
- Diabetes, Hypertension, Hyperlipidemia
- Any immunity related problems

I believe that leaves about 30% to 40% going back to work in US ?

~80-90% of the people corona kills are above retirement age.

 

[MXLRplus]

New York in throwing Cubic $$$$$$ at Covid-19 and it is killing mostly the poor people. Coincidence? No.

 

[ZachF]

Runaway Covid-19 will destroy the economy.

You better hope for a 3rd choice. I suggest looking towards Asia

Corona is bad but people are getting a bit hysterical.

This disease has a ~99.9% survival rate if you are under 50.

It's not an existential threat. If it happened 150 years ago, no one woudl have even noticed it. It's not the Spanish Flu

 

[N5329K]

I don't think it's practical for the government to force people to fly,

But the government is, in a way. As part of the bailout, airlines have to fly minimum service routes to designated airports, whether there are any pax on board or not. Here in Monterey, we had about 100 Part 241 flights a week this time last year, spread across Alaska, Allegiant, American and United. This year, minimum service dictates 14 flights a week (also spread across those four carriers), and they are flying. That money runs out September 30th.
Robin

 

[Daniel in SD]

So you think soup lines and poverty is going to fix the epidemic? I don't.

No. I think quite a few countries have already demonstrated how to fix it.

 

[ZachF]

No. I think quite a few countries have already demonstrated how to fix it.

We don't actually know if they've actually "beat it" yet, or just delayed the inevitable. Every time Singapore tries to re-open themselves they have to quarantine right back up again. The disease is everywhere now, and evolving.

Living forever in a police state dystopia and cowering in your homes over a disease with a 99.x% survival rate until (if?) the vaccine comes makes the cure worse than the disease.

Some of you people are letting your hysterical fear of death destroy what makes live worth living.

 

[Norbert]

~80-90% of the people corona kills are above retirement age.

In NYC, the age group 45-64 is close to average fatality. Not much less.

EDIT: 45, not 40.

 

[dfwatt]

View attachment 535399
Debunking President Magufuli's false claims that inhaling steam cures COVID-19 - GOTTA.news

Carl Sagan Presents His "Baloney Detection Kit": 8 Tools for Skeptical Thinking | Open Culture

Damn, you just took the wind out of my sails . . . . . or maybe I should say the steam out of my announcement. I was just about to announce my latest breakthrough product the Yahoo Bunghole Steam Gun (YBSG). This will be only sold to a select group of individuals who have failed in the phase 2 trial of Idiot Spray. It has proven efficacy in relationship to covid-19. Guaranteed. YBSG has three power settings. 1 - Normal speed - adequate for the average idiot; 2 - high speed - adequate for complete and total morons; 3 - max turbo boost, for use only on our most refractory morons, but safety at this elevated power setting is not guaranteed.

 

[MXLRplus]

In NYC, the age group 40-64 is close to average fatality. Not much less.

And mostly minorities and poor. So get lots of exercise, put a few million in the bank, and get some skin dye.