Coronavirus

[gt2690b]

Tell that to all the people who wear masks daily for various reasons, for decades, including your surgeon, painter, wood worker, welder, etc. Long before the pandemic I wore masks for various tasks, all to preserve my health. The only self imposed shackle I see is ignorance. Go outside and get a nice lung full of smoke particles from wild fires if you get the chance...

I think what he meant was mask use showed no correlation to reduced covid transmission..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657174180075552769

 

[gt2690b]

Same here, I stopped wearing a mask for about 1 day sometime in the past and then the next wave started and I never looked back.

I'm still looking forward to a day when I'm willing to go into a random fast food restaurant without a mask and stand in front of a cashier that's been elbow to elbow with the whole crew all day. I wear a mask and take the food to go (eat at home).

I'm just still wishing I could stop wearing one in the worst of my scenarios. My doctor looks at me like I'm odd when I wear one into her office. But I figure that practice with hundreds of people (dozens or more of staff, plus dozens of patients) has got to be just about as dangerous a place I've ever been to in terms of covid risk. I literally walk past more employees in the hallways than I do patients and it always seems I'm the only one with a mask these days.

Maybe if you're doctor isn't wearing a mask that should tell you maybe you don't need to wear one either?

 

[JRP3]

I think what he meant was mask use showed no correlation to reduced covid transmission..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657174180075552769

Well here is an actual study, not some Twitter post, that shows otherwise.

On average, the daily case incidence per 100,000 people in masked counties compared with unmasked counties declined by 25 percent at four weeks, 35 percent at six weeks, and 18 percent across six weeks postintervention. The beneficial effect varied across regions of different population densities and political leanings. The most concentrated effects of masking mandates were seen in urban counties; the benefit of the mandates was potentially stronger within Republican-leaning counties. Although benefits were not equally distributed in all regions, masking mandates conferred benefit in reducing community case incidence during an early period of the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2021.01072

 

[dhanson865]

Maybe if you're doctor isn't wearing a mask that should tell you maybe you don't need to wear one either?

My doctor is younger, weighs less (low BMI), and is female. By all 3 factors way lower risk than me as an older male with a normal BMI.

but if you are anti mask I can just put you on my ignore list as well.

 

[gt2690b]

Well here is an actual study, not some Twitter post, that shows otherwise.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2021.01072

Thanks for the link

As the article points out the mask mandate was more effective in republican counties.. what does that tell you? It tells me many republicans prefer not to go out in public if they have to wear a mask.. so is the mandate working because people are naturally distancing or are the masks actually working?

I used to be all for the masks but the more I read the more I realize they are not doing much if anything.. I did quickly realize however what the mandate is psychologically doing to the young generation of our country and I don't feel like the mandates were worth the social cost

I certainly don't mind if others want to wear a mask but I am definitely anti mask mandate

 

[JRP3]

As the article points out the mask mandate was more effective in republican counties.. what does that tell you? It tells me many republicans prefer not to go out in public if they have to wear a mask.. so is the mandate working because people are naturally distancing or are the masks actually working?

So I guess if social distancing works you're all for it and the lock downs, right?

I used to be all for the masks but the more I read the more I realize they are not doing much if anything.. I did quickly realize however what the mandate is psychologically doing to the young generation of our country and I don't feel like the mandates were worth the social cost

The main problem with "masks" is in most cases people weren't wearing N95/KN95 and/or were "wearing" them under their nose, under their chins, and/or were taking them on and off repeatedly, wearing them on their wrists, etc. A good mask worn as an actual mask does work, people being too dumb to wear one properly doesn't change that basic fact. As for kids, they are quite resilient, and if properly messaged that masks are "cool" like superheros wear there would likely be zero negative impact. Of course again you had a certain group of parents freaking out about masks and spreading lies about CO2 poisoning and collecting germs instead of rational mask protocol. So blame people such as yourself for any "social cost" if there were such.

 

[gt2690b]

So I guess if social distancing works you're all for it and the lock downs, right?

The main problem with "masks" is in most cases people weren't wearing N95/KN95 and/or were "wearing" them under their nose, under their chins, and/or were taking them on and off repeatedly, wearing them on their wrists, etc. A good mask worn as an actual mask does work, people being too dumb to wear one properly doesn't change that basic fact. As for kids, they are quite resilient, and if properly messaged that masks are "cool" like superheros wear there would likely be zero negative impact. Of course again you had a certain group of parents freaking out about masks and spreading lies about CO2 poisoning and collecting germs instead of rational mask protocol. So blame people such as yourself for any "social cost" if there were such.

So republicans wear masks better than democrats? I'm not really buying that

 

[JRP3]

So republicans wear masks better than democrats? I'm not really buying that

You said they stayed home instead of wearing a mask.

 

[gt2690b]

You said they stayed home instead of wearing a mask.

Then you agree the masks made no difference? Glad to see

 

[Norbert]

So republicans wear masks better than democrats? I'm not really buying that

I haven't read the whole article but maybe in democratic counties the effect of mask mandates was smaller also because more of them were wearing masks anyway.

 

[DrGriz]

Regarding reinfection, there has been one person tested in the USA who carried both the S strain and the mutated and far more virulent L strain of the disease. Thus it might well be the case that since there are two strains, reinfection is in fact catching the other strain

Do you happen to have a link?

 

[JRP3]

Then you agree the masks made no difference? Glad to see

I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies in your own arguments. The basic physics of a properly worn quality mask are not in dispute among rational thinkers.

 

[DrGriz]

I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies in your own arguments. The basic physics of a properly worn quality mask are not in dispute among rational thinkers.

Agreed. The so-called "evidence" that masks don't work is more fully stated "masks don't work when not worn (properly)."
We keep hoping to convert one more person to rational thought, but the sample size of eligible subjects has dwindled.

 

[gt2690b]

I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies in your own arguments. The basic physics of a properly worn quality mask are not in dispute among rational thinkers.

I agree a properly worn n95 mask would filter something... But I don't remember an n95 mask mandate... I do remember almost nobody wearing a mask correctly or a proper mask at all... The efficacy of the mandate was basically zilch.. it's not just a twitter link above it's a link to books written on the subject

 

[DrGriz]

I agree a properly worn n95 mask would filter something... But I don't remember an n95 mask mandate... I do remember almost nobody wearing a mask correctly or a proper mask at all... The efficacy of the mandate was basically zilch.. it's not just a twitter link above it's a link to books written on the subject

Even procedure masks and homemade masks slowed progression. This has been shown.
No mandate "works" if people choose not to follow them. That, however, is sociopolitical and has nothing to do with to subject of the mandate. Further, because of the extremely variable situations in terms of compliance and viral transmission level variance, we are left with observational studies, which are (in my honest opinion) worth only the paper they are written on.

I firmly believe that all masks slow transmission, and have the personal (observational) experience where those of us in health care generally caught Covid at home from our kids, rather than at work where we used both procedure and N95 masks.

If you want evidence that masks work, the science is there.

If you want evidence that people don't follow mandates, the science is there as well.

Don't conflate the two.

 

[gt2690b]

Even procedure masks and homemade masks slowed progression. This has been shown.
No mandate "works" if people choose not to follow them. That, however, is sociopolitical and has nothing to do with to subject of the mandate. Further, because of the extremely variable situations in terms of compliance and viral transmission level variance, we are left with observational studies, which are (in my honest opinion) worth only the paper they are written on.

I firmly believe that all masks slow transmission, and have the personal (observational) experience where those of us in health care generally caught Covid at home from our kids, rather than at work where we used both procedure and N95 masks.

If you want evidence that masks work, the science is there.

If you want evidence that people don't follow mandates, the science is there as well.

Don't conflate the two.

do you have any data and/or links for homemade mask progression slowing? from a molecular standpoint it'd be like blocking a fart with underwear

 

[bkp_duke]

do you have any data and/or links for homemade mask progression slowing? from a molecular standpoint it'd be like blocking a fart with underwear

The definitive study for masks and effectiveness was actually performed about 1-2 years before COVID. I've posted it in this thread on several occasions, but it's a long thread and I don't have the link at hand.

Basically, yes they are effective, but marginally. Hand-made masks were the worst, but offered some protection, surgical masks were next, then N95 masks, and then full-bore N100 respirators were the best.


EDIT - and people continually think of masks as one-way, that's incorrect thinking. If you are sick, and wearing a mask, your spread of a viral pathogen is an order of magnitude lower than if you are unmasked, even with the crappiest hand-made masks.

The point of masking is not to STOP the spread of a respiratory pathogen, it's to slow it to buy you time for other, better, interventions.

EDIT 2 - this study is a controlled study back about 13 years ago comparing "tea cloth" masks to surgical masks and FFP2 masks. Their summary is about what one would expect:

(from results section)
All masks provided protection against transmission by reducing exposure during all types of activities, for both children and adults (Table 1). Within each category of masks, the degree of protection varied by age category and to a lesser extent by activity. We observed no difference between men and women. Surgical masks provided about twice as much protection as home made masks, the difference a bit more marked among adults. FFP2 masks provided adults with about 50 times as much protection as home made masks, and 25 times as much protection as surgical masks. The increase in protection for children was less marked, about 10 times as much protection by FFP2 versus home-made masks and 6 times as much protection as surgical masks.

(from abstract)
Any type of general mask use is likely to decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, in spite of imperfect fit and imperfect adherence, personal respirators providing most protection. Masks worn by patients may not offer as great a degree of protection against aerosol transmission.

Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population

Governments are preparing for a potential influenza pandemic. Therefore they need data to assess the possible impact of interventions. Face-masks worn by the general population could be an accessible and affordable intervention, if effective when worn ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[DrGriz]

The definitive study for masks and effectiveness was actually performed about 1-2 years before COVID. I've posted it in this thread on several occasions, but it's a long thread and I don't have the link at hand.

Basically, yes they are effective, but marginally. Hand-made masks were the worst, but offered some protection, surgical masks were next, then N95 masks, and then full-bore N100 respirators were the best.

I have also posted that information. Basically any mask works because viruses don't travel as independent particles. They travel on other particles (droplets or mist, if you will). You don't have to filter something the size of a virus. You trap the ocean liner they travel on.

Even then, you don't have to trap them all. Just enough to stay below infection threshold.

 

[JRP3]

from a molecular standpoint it'd be like blocking a fart with underwear

CH4 molecule 3.8 Angstroms, SARS CoV-2 0.1-0.5 micrometers or 1000-5000 Angstroms

Zooming In: Visualizing the Relative Size of Particles

From wildfire smoke molecules to the coronavirus, this graphic compares the relative size of particles that we, for the most part, can't see.

www.visualcapitalist.com

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Molecular-Weight-Da-and-Kinetic-Diameter-A-of-Gases-Encountered-in-Membrane-Gas_tbl1_228676182

 

[CatB]

CH4 molecule 3.8 Angstroms, SARS CoV-2 0.1-0.5 micrometers or 1000-5000 Angstroms

The scientific precision of this response overdignifies the bad joke it nullifies *so* perfectly.