Coronavirus

[heltok]

It's endemic. Except for the immunocompromised and those with serious medical conditions, I don't expect many severe cases moving forward.

One thing worrying me is that repeated covid infections might make you immunocompromised :-/

I recommend you all to do your best to optimize your immune systems. Do all the basic stuff: exercise, diet, sleep. Cut down on the bad stuff: smoking, drinking, processed foods etc. Do some bonus stuff: zinc, omega3, vit D, sauna, ice baths. This is a great book on the topic:

Amazon.com: Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity (Audible Audio Edition): Peter Attia MD, Bill Gifford - contributor, Peter Attia MD, Random House Audio: Audible Books & Originals

Amazon.com: Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity (Audible Audio Edition): Peter Attia MD, Bill Gifford - contributor, Peter Attia MD, Random House Audio: Audible Books & Originals

www.amazon.com

 

[bkp_duke]

The only worrying thing is that repeated covid infections might make you immunocompromised :-/

I'm hoping you meant a /s on the end there.

SARS-CoV-2 is not an immunodeficiency virus.

 

[heltok]

I'm hoping you meant a /s on the end there.

SARS-CoV-2 is not an immunodeficiency virus.

Not here to debate, here are some links to consider.

SARS-CoV-2 infection causes immunodeficiency in recovered patients by downregulating CD19 expression in B cells via enhancing B-cell metabolism - Signal Transduction and Targeted Therapy

The SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe immune disruption. However, it is unclear if disrupted immune regulation still exists and pertains in recovered COVID-19 patients. In our study, we have characterized the immune phenotype of B cells from 15 recovered COVID-19 patients, and found that...

www.nature.com

JCI Insight - PD-1 blockade counteracts post–COVID-19 immune abnormalities and stimulates the anti–SARS-CoV-2 immune response

insight.jci.org

Lauterbach warnt vor unheilbarer Immunschwäche durch Corona

Wer sich öfter mit Corona infiziert, läuft offenbar Gefahr, an einer unheilbaren Immunschwäche zu erkranken. Darauf deuten laut Gesundheitsminister Lauterbach verschiedene Untersuchungen hin, die derzeit weiter erforscht werden. In der Folge würde das Risiko für chronische Krankheiten wie Demenz...

www-n--tv-de.translate.goog

Summary of youtube video

(I don't think the science is settled, thus I worry)

 

[bkp_duke]

Not here to debate, here are some links to consider.

SARS-CoV-2 infection causes immunodeficiency in recovered patients by downregulating CD19 expression in B cells via enhancing B-cell metabolism - Signal Transduction and Targeted Therapy

The SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe immune disruption. However, it is unclear if disrupted immune regulation still exists and pertains in recovered COVID-19 patients. In our study, we have characterized the immune phenotype of B cells from 15 recovered COVID-19 patients, and found that...

www.nature.com

JCI Insight - PD-1 blockade counteracts post–COVID-19 immune abnormalities and stimulates the anti–SARS-CoV-2 immune response

insight.jci.org

Lauterbach warnt vor unheilbarer Immunschwäche durch Corona

Wer sich öfter mit Corona infiziert, läuft offenbar Gefahr, an einer unheilbaren Immunschwäche zu erkranken. Darauf deuten laut Gesundheitsminister Lauterbach verschiedene Untersuchungen hin, die derzeit weiter erforscht werden. In der Folge würde das Risiko für chronische Krankheiten wie Demenz...

www-n--tv-de.translate.goog

Summary of youtube video

(I don't think the science is settled, thus I worry)

OK, we are talking VERY different things then.

It's common for viruses to down-regulate the immune system DURING an infection. It's almost universal (but via different mechanisms). It's how various viruses go through their propagation cycle. This is temporary and abates after the immune system mops up the virus.

But there is a special class of viruses referred to as immunodeficiency viruses (HIV being the classic example) that stick around long-term and down-regulate the immune system beyond the acute phase of infection. Coronaviruses are not historically immunodeficiency viruses.

 

[JRP3]

Relevant since he's been referenced in this thread:

 

[heltok]

OK, we are talking VERY different things then.

It's common for viruses to down-regulate the immune system DURING an infection. It's almost universal (but via different mechanisms). It's how various viruses go through their propagation cycle. This is temporary and abates after the immune system mops up the virus.

But there is a special class of viruses referred to as immunodeficiency viruses (HIV being the classic example) that stick around long-term and down-regulate the immune system beyond the acute phase of infection. Coronaviruses are not historically immunodeficiency viruses.

I was talking about after infection and the links I was linking was according to my interpretation talking about after infection. Anyway I was not here to debate this issue, even if you don't think that covid can cause immunodefiency, the advice is sound.

 

[DrGriz]

I was talking about after infection and the links I was linking was according to my interpretation talking about after infection. Anyway I was not here to debate this issue, even if you don't think that covid can cause immunodefiency, the advice is sound.

I'm waiting for more powerful evidence for ice baths before I take one.

 

[JRP3]

The fun never stops, bird flu crossing over to mammals.

 

[heltok]

I'm waiting for more powerful evidence for ice baths before I take one.

The Effect of Cold Showering on Health and Work: A Randomized Controlled Trial

The aim of this study was to determine the cumulative effect of a routine (hot-to-) cold shower on sickness, quality of life and work productivity.Between January and March 2015, 3018 participants between 18 and 65 years without severe comorbidity and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Immune system of cold-exposed and cold-adapted humans - PubMed

The aim of this study was to investigate whether or not the human immune system can be activated by a noninfectious stimulus, thereby improving the physiological status of the individual. The effect of a single cold water immersion (14 degrees C for 1 h) on the immune system of athletic young...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

#254 - AMA #47: Cold therapy: pros, cons, and its impact on longevity - Peter Attia

“If we're talking about [activating brown adipose tissue] as a solution for overweight or obesity in adults, it's not a needle mover.” —Peter Attia

peterattiamd.com

Try it, it's really nice! I take them almost daily now.

 

[JRP3]

The Effect of Cold Showering on Health and Work: A Randomized Controlled Trial

The aim of this study was to determine the cumulative effect of a routine (hot-to-) cold shower on sickness, quality of life and work productivity.Between January and March 2015, 3018 participants between 18 and 65 years without severe comorbidity and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Immune system of cold-exposed and cold-adapted humans - PubMed

The aim of this study was to investigate whether or not the human immune system can be activated by a noninfectious stimulus, thereby improving the physiological status of the individual. The effect of a single cold water immersion (14 degrees C for 1 h) on the immune system of athletic young...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

#254 - AMA #47: Cold therapy: pros, cons, and its impact on longevity - Peter Attia

“If we're talking about [activating brown adipose tissue] as a solution for overweight or obesity in adults, it's not a needle mover.” —Peter Attia

peterattiamd.com

Try it, it's really nice! I take them almost daily now.

First study could be entirely placebo effect and the results were minor:
"A routine (hot-to-) cold shower resulted in a statistical reduction of self-reported sickness absence but not illness days in adults without severe comorbidity."

Second study also minor results:
"It was concluded that the stress-inducing noninfectious stimuli, such as repeated cold water immersions, which increased metabolic rate due to shivering the elevated blood concentrations of catecholamines, activated the immune system to a slight extent. The biological significance of the changes observed remains to be elucidated."

 

[heltok]

First study could be entirely placebo effect and the results were minor:
"A routine (hot-to-) cold shower resulted in a statistical reduction of self-reported sickness absence but not illness days in adults without severe comorbidity."

Second study also minor results:
"It was concluded that the stress-inducing noninfectious stimuli, such as repeated cold water immersions, which increased metabolic rate due to shivering the elevated blood concentrations of catecholamines, activated the immune system to a slight extent. The biological significance of the changes observed remains to be elucidated."

Yeah, unfortuneately we don't have much better studies than those. There are some studies on athletes for recovery, but that's a different topic. There's ton of fringe anecdotal and weird stuff:

Anyway, they might be the cherry on the icing on the cake. Something to consider if you like it. I find that many people on the internet like to attack the weakest part of posts, ice baths were the weakest part of my post...

Anyway, I will see myself out of this thread now, sometimes these discussion can be a black hole you get pulled into...

 

[DrGriz]

The Effect of Cold Showering on Health and Work: A Randomized Controlled Trial

The aim of this study was to determine the cumulative effect of a routine (hot-to-) cold shower on sickness, quality of life and work productivity.Between January and March 2015, 3018 participants between 18 and 65 years without severe comorbidity and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Immune system of cold-exposed and cold-adapted humans - PubMed

The aim of this study was to investigate whether or not the human immune system can be activated by a noninfectious stimulus, thereby improving the physiological status of the individual. The effect of a single cold water immersion (14 degrees C for 1 h) on the immune system of athletic young...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

#254 - AMA #47: Cold therapy: pros, cons, and its impact on longevity - Peter Attia

“If we're talking about [activating brown adipose tissue] as a solution for overweight or obesity in adults, it's not a needle mover.” —Peter Attia

peterattiamd.com

Try it, it's really nice! I take them almost daily now.

I really liked the quote from the last article. "A thousand sow's ears, make not a pearl necklace."

Worth remembering!

 

[jerry33]

The fun never stops, bird flu crossing over to mammals.

Hasn't that always been the case?

 

[JRP3]

Hasn't that always been the case?

I guess I should have said more variants crossing over.

 

[JRP3]

I find that many people on the internet like to attack the weakest part of posts, ice baths were the weakest part of my post...

Well yes people shouldn't attack the parts that have good evidence of support, that wouldn't make sense. Few would attack your suggestion not to smoke.

 

[PACEMD]

I'm waiting for more powerful evidence for ice baths before I take one.

That's just cold.......

 

[JRP3]

Elon believing covid misinformation without question

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663137182134018049

and spreading anti vax memes

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663060673587191808

 

[SO16]

Elon believing covid misinformation without question

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663137182134018049

and spreading anti vax memes

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663060673587191808

Well at least community notes is setting some of it straight.

 

[dhanson865]

7 weeks out April 12 2023 moving average changed again from 200 to 201. (It was 195 at the 5 week mark)
6 weeks out April 18 2023 moving average is 192 so even if it shifts again in a few days it's likely to stay below 200.

The trend is downwards but its so far in the rear view mirror it's not very useful for making a decision about wearing a mask tomorrow.

 

[DrGriz]

...

The trend is downwards but its so far in the rear view mirror it's not very useful for making a decision about wearing a mask tomorrow.

Deaths are always too far in the rear view mirror to make that decision. Especially on a nationwide basis. It doesn't hit every community at once, and some can be very out of sync. What's happening in Idaho is not what's happening in Manhattan. For us, by the time we know it is hitting our community it's already waning.

For myself, I look at the situation. If I am going to be indoors around a lot of people, especially sitting in one spot, for an extended period of time, I wear a mask.