Coronavirus

[AlanSubie4Life]

I have to say canceling your travel plans while you wait to see if you actually get COVID, and missing Christmas, is not all that fun. This "living with the virus" is not all that great and I feel like being a bit more serious about wearing masks, especially after higher-risk activities, would be more pleasant.

I mean, I take off the mask inside my actual office since no one is there typically, and I have to drink water and eat sometimes. Usually I put it back on when someone comes in, but I was starting to feel like that could be taken wrong, so I had stopped doing so sometimes. So dumb. Just offend people, especially when you mean no offense and are just following procedure!

Oh well, live and learn. Maybe I'll get lucky - then I'll have to get really serious. Dr. Michael Mina would say I'm at low risk of infection, since I was exposed at least 16 hours before a very faint positive test. But I don't trust the science; I'm doing my own research.

Feeling fine. It's been about 36 hours. Hoping I'm symptom-free in the morning, then I'll start to hope.

I wonder what the longest actual exposure to symptoms (not test positive - that can take much longer) typically is?

I think for everyone I know who has a decent idea of the source of exposure, it's been about 48 hours or so. There are some ridiculous numbers out there though - like 5 days or 7 days or even 10 days! But they don't seem data driven at all. I’m sure there is a long tail but that seems irrelevant.

Seems to me that if I'm good at 60 hours, no symptoms at all, I'm probably fine, especially considering the circumstances of the exposure. Guess we'll see.

 

[wdolson]

Noticed that half of the cars in our grocery store parking lot were from Washington and Oregon this afternoon. So I suspect we aren't really far behind.

New variants tend to hit metro areas first and then move to more rural areas.

 

[DrGriz]

New variants tend to hit metro areas first and then move to more rural areas.

Yes. Very much. But we aren't your usual rural area. People come directly here from urban centers all over the world for vacation nearly every day of the year. It's only 4 hours to get here from Seattle, 8 or so if you drive the whole way.

Early in the pandemic, Sun Valley Idaho, another destination resort town, was one of the highest concentrations of cases in the country, because they got one plane load of infected people from an out of state city. Overwhelmed, and closed the hospital. Killed an employee. Went through the community like a forest fire.

The rest of the state is different and just as you say.

 

[DrGriz]

I have to say canceling your travel plans while you wait to see if you actually get COVID, and missing Christmas, is not all that fun. This "living with the virus" is not all that great and I feel like being a bit more serious about wearing masks, especially after higher-risk activities, would be more pleasant.

I mean, I take off the mask inside my actual office since no one is there typically, and I have to drink water and eat sometimes. Usually I put it back on when someone comes in, but I was starting to feel like that could be taken wrong, so I had stopped doing so sometimes. So dumb. Just offend people, especially when you mean no offense and are just following procedure!

Oh well, live and learn. Maybe I'll get lucky - then I'll have to get really serious. Dr. Michael Mina would say I'm at low risk of infection, since I was exposed at least 16 hours before a very faint positive test. But I don't trust the science; I'm doing my own research.

Feeling fine. It's been about 36 hours. Hoping I'm symptom-free in the morning, then I'll start to hope.

I wonder what the longest actual exposure to symptoms (not test positive - that can take much longer) typically is?

I think for everyone I know who has a decent idea of the source of exposure, it's been about 48 hours or so. There are some ridiculous numbers out there though - like 5 days or 7 days or even 10 days! But they don't seem data driven at all. I’m sure there is a long tail but that seems irrelevant.

Seems to me that if I'm good at 60 hours, no symptoms at all, I'm probably fine, especially considering the circumstances of the exposure. Guess we'll see.

Trust the science but verify. Low odds are not zero. I like your plan. Do what you are most comfortable with.

 

[wdolson]

Yes. Very much. But we aren't your usual rural area. People come directly here from urban centers all over the world for vacation nearly every day of the year. It's only 4 hours to get here from Seattle, 8 or so if you drive the whole way.

Early in the pandemic, Sun Valley Idaho, another destination resort town, was one of the highest concentrations of cases in the country, because they got one plane load of infected people from an out of state city. Overwhelmed, and closed the hospital. Killed an employee. Went through the community like a forest fire.

The rest of the state is different and just as you say.

Before the 20th century pandemics would often spare rural areas. Improvements in transportation allowed pandemics to spread everywhere.

Around 1890 there was a serious flu outbreak that was not 1918 level bad, but it ripped through a lot of the cities. When the 1918 flu came along, most people from urban areas over 30 fared fairly well. Many didn't get sick and those who did only got mild cases. People under 30 were hit hard everywhere, and everyone in rural areas were hit hard. Some remote communities were completely wiped out.

The travel associated with the war contributed quite a bit, but people were traveling more by 1918 than 30 years previously. Fast forward 100 years and travel is even more widespread than ever.

When I learned that COVID had up to a 14 day incubation period and people could be asymptomatic and contagious, I immediately came to the conclusion that we were all going to get it. I suspect a lot of people who believe they never had it got an asymptomatic case.

 

[dhanson865]

I live far enough south that I have allergy symptoms year round. Even with me taking "24 hour" antihistamines daily. I always have partial congestion, sneeze every day, sometimes have runny nose, can get headaches, and all of the above at the same time even with no infection.

So could I have been infected by covid and not know it? Sure, totally possible. I still wouldn't call it "asymptomatic" though since I'm never asymptomatic.

But I've had every possible vaccine dose I could get (I guess I've had 6 or 7 now?) and have avoided contact as much as possible (for example I didn't get a professional hair cut during peak covid years).

Every time I've tested, my tests were negative.

I wore masks, avoided contact as much as possible and my work environment is me sitting at a computer with no one near by, talking to people over the phone or by chat.

I think it's very possible I haven't been infected still. If I had to bet money I'd say I haven't been, but of course I can't be 100% certain.

 

[DrGriz]

I live far enough south that I have allergy symptoms year round. Even with me taking "24 hour" antihistamines daily. I always have partial congestion, sneeze every day, sometimes have runny nose, can get headaches, and all of the above at the same time even with no infection.

So could I have been infected by covid and not know it? Sure, totally possible. I still wouldn't call it "asymptomatic" though since I'm never asymptomatic.

But I've had every possible vaccine dose I could get (I guess I've had 6 or 7 now?) and have avoided contact as much as possible (for example I didn't get a professional hair cut during peak covid years).

Every time I've tested, my tests were negative.

I wore masks, avoided contact as much as possible and my work environment is me sitting at a computer with no one near by, talking to people over the phone or by chat.

I think it's very possible I haven't been infected still. If I had to bet money I'd say I haven't been, but of course I can't be 100% certain.

If you have antibodies to COVID proteins other than spike (assuming that's your vaccine), you could find out, provided you do the test before the levels become undetectable

There are no doubt many people who have been infected but never knew. I read one study that estimated 50% in the first spring of Omicron. We don't routinely test. It would be very expensive.

There are also an unknown percentage of people who just don't get sick even if they've never been vaccinated. Lucky them.

And maybe there are a number of us who have somehow managed to totally avoid exposure, through hook or crook.

Don't know why for sure, but I remain in the group of few who have never knowingly had it.

 

[wdolson]

If you have antibodies to COVID proteins other than spike (assuming that's your vaccine), you could find out, provided you do the test before the levels become undetectable

There are no doubt many people who have been infected but never knew. I read one study that estimated 50% in the first spring of Omicron. We don't routinely test. It would be very expensive.

There are also an unknown percentage of people who just don't get sick even if they've never been vaccinated. Lucky them.

And maybe there are a number of us who have somehow managed to totally avoid exposure, through hook or crook.

Don't know why for sure, but I remain in the group of few who have never knowingly had it.

My partner has a friend who never gets sick. She's known her friend since the early 80s and can only recall her friend having a couple of colds in 40 years. She's in her mid-70s now and has brain damage from living in an apartment with a bad mold problem for 20 years. Others she knew around her died of neurological conditions. It's manifested as pretty bad aphasia (both input and output) which makes her dependent on others and my partner is her lawyer with her power of attorney. Because she never got sick, she really is struggling to deal with her speech problems.

I'm sure she was exposed to COVID. She was staying with us for a couple of weeks early in the pandemic and flew back to Florida (where she was living at the time) the day I got my first symptoms of my first COVID infection. Though I didn't realize it at the time. It felt like an asthma attack. She flew back to Florida with no mask or anything. This was before lockdown.

She has an untreated anxiety disorder so she is absolutely paranoid about getting COVID, but considering her immune system she may have had it an sloughed it off without noticing.

I got mildly ill three times with COVID: original in Feb 2020, Omicron in Dec 2021, and the latest strain. In each case I didn't get very ill. With the last one I thought it was an odd case of hay fever until I developed a fever one night. I took an at home COVID test and tested negative, but I may have been on the backside by that point. It was also an old test that was formulated for the original strain so it may not have been able to detect it.

I think I've kicked several other strains that passed through. Occasionally I'd feel a bit off for an evening, usually when a new strain was going around in large numbers, but would feel fine after getting a good night's sleep. A couple of times a week or two later I got antibody tested and it was always high.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Well I seem to have escaped the exposure at work. In retrospect I should not have been worried:
1) 600ppm CO2 even as measured during the exposure with door closed.
2) Faint line on test 18 hours after exposure.

Seem to have also escaped COVID with family over the break. It's nice to have holidays with no colds interfering.

However, went to see the outdoor troll in Issaquah yesterday, and there were a group of people who were clearly sick and bleary eyed who were coughing and ended up breathing on me for 10-15 seconds outside. Outside, and I started holding my breath and exited the area ASAP, but still. I wonder if I'll be sick tomorrow? So annoying to have to deal with this sort of thing. I'll be sure to come back here and report confirmed outdoors transmission (I have no other exposures) if it happens.

I think the Novavax vaccine may have created enough immune response to create some irritation in one of my eyes (my wife seemed to have a similar response). Might have been unrelated, but worth a mention regardless. In any case it is in full maximum effect now; my blood runs thick with poorly matched antibodies. I don't have a lot of hope that the current vaccine formulation provides much efficacy against infection with JN.1, which now dominates globally, as predicted in September. It'll probably take at least another two doses of the correct target (which will likely also be out of date by the time it is released given the weird rollout strategy).

I wonder why they don't just adopt a rolling vaccine strategy - if they had started producing JN.1 vaccine in September it would be ready by now, easily. There was plenty of time to even more effectively protect a very large portion of the vulnerable population.

About 1 in 30 people (or more) with COVID at the moment (this assumes a 10-day infection period). So it is tough to avoid!

 

[cwerdna]

Florida surgeon general calls for COVID-19 vaccine halt as controversial claims mount

Florida Surgeon General called for a halt in the use of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines after claiming they could integrate “contaminate” DNA into human cells.

news.yahoo.com

Florida Surgeon General Cites Debunked Claims In Calling For Halt Of COVID Shots

Federal health officials, as well as other medical experts, have dismissed Dr. Joseph Ladapo's concerns as factually inaccurate and dangerous to human health.

www.yahoo.com

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Outside, and I started holding my breath and exited the area ASAP, but still. I wonder if I'll be sick tomorrow? So annoying to have to deal with this sort of thing. I'll be sure to come back here and report confirmed outdoors transmission (I have no other exposures) if it happens.

I survived. No transmission.

Going about my business and upping my masking game in the office.

No worries. We’ll see about Vegas in a couple weeks though. That could be a big immune challenge! 1 in 24 people currently infected allegedly.

 

[DownshiftDre]

I survived. No transmission.

Going about my business and upping my masking game in the office.

No worries. We’ll see about Vegas in a couple weeks though. That could be a big immune challenge! 1 in 24 people currently infected allegedly.

Im in Vegas and I think it went through its peak already. We all in our extended family got sick pretty bad before Christmas but nobody was able to confirm a covid positive. Now with other people coming into town and if you mingling within then yes the risk is up there. But locally feels like vegas residents have already been through worst period.

 

[jerry33]

I survived. No transmission.

Going about my business and upping my masking game in the office.

No worries. We’ll see about Vegas in a couple weeks though. That could be a big immune challenge! 1 in 24 people currently infected allegedly.

I survived too, but sleeping heart rate is up from ~50 to ~60 and rowing performance is now 2:27 / 500 m when it was 2:22 / 500 m over 6 km.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We all in our extended family got sick pretty bad before Christmas but nobody was able to confirm a covid positive.

You needed this :

Glad everyone made it through. Lots of stuff out there.

 

[madodel]

Darwin always wins.

Nearly 17,000 people may have died from hydroxychloroquine: study

 

[DrGriz]

Darwin always wins.

Nearly 17,000 people may have died from hydroxychloroquine: study

Really a WAG study, but probably has some truth behind it.

It was also given in hospitals when things were desperate and we really didn't know what else to do, but with cardiac monitoring. Don't know if we could separate cardiac deaths from severe Covid vs from treatment side effects, but probably there were some.

 

[scottf200]

1/6/2024

 

[Slipstream]

Just about to get a new COVID vaccine (had COVID almost 3 months ago; think it may be time to boost as I'm around hundreds of people each day). Not sure which one to get: Pfizer, Moderna, or Novavax (I've had 4 Pfizer and 1 Moderna in the past). Any thoughts on this?

This meta-analysis (1645 studies reviewed) from last year suggests both protective and beneficial effects on long COVID if one gets vaccinated:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9978692/pdf/bmjmed-2022-000385.pdf

 

[scottf200]

Just about to get a new COVID vaccine (had COVID almost 3 months ago; think it may be time to boost as I'm around hundreds of people each day). Not sure which one to get: Pfizer, Moderna, or Novavax (I've had 4 Pfizer and 1 Moderna in the past). Any thoughts on this?

This meta-analysis (1645 studies reviewed) from last year suggests both protective and beneficial effects on long COVID if one gets vaccinated:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9978692/pdf/bmjmed-2022-000385.pdf

I've had similar but mostly Moderna. I got Covid the last day-ish on a two week road trip with 3 long stops. I got a Moderna Fall booster a week or two before the trip. My resulting case was mild. My spouse showed no signs and tested negative. Reasons to consider Novavax from someone I've learned to trust with unbiased views.

Substack post is having an tech issue but I cut-n-paste some interesting parts from her email.

Is mixing Novavax after an mRNA series better?​

There is some evidence that mixing is immunologically better and some evidence that staying with mRNA is better. It’s a bit hard to know which one is “right” given how little evidence we have at this point. (See a breakdown of the similarities and differences here.)

That said, there are two reasons people may want to go with Novavax:

• Hesitant about mRNA biotechnology, regardless of its long history.
• Side effects. In a randomized clinical trial, Novavax had fewer side effects than mRNA vaccines. This is one major reason why I’m going with Novavax this fall for the first time. (The mRNA vaccines kick my butt. Fingers crossed, this is more forgiving for me).
  

  ​

  Side effects from varying combinations of Covid-19 vaccines. Figure from the Lancet, with YLE annotations. Original source here.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Novavax had fewer side effects than mRNA vaccines

I don’t have significant side effects from mRNA, just arm soreness. And soreness was less with Novavax monovalent three months after my monovalent Moderna.