cost per charge at home ??

[Reciprocity]

Good analysis but there are too many variables to say for sure. Residual value on Tesla leases is not great, maybe 54% not including the boost from the $7500 federal tax credit. Also, insurance is ridiculously expensive on my Tesla compared to my other similarly priced luxury cars, by about a factor of 2x.

That's why I would never lease a Tesla, because they take the car back and sell it for 20% profit. Tesla has already stated that they are looking at getting into the insurance business. Part of the problem with insurance, which I don't have because I didn't see my rates go up that much, is more cars will mean more shops that can work on Tesla's aluminium parts. Aluminium is becoming more popular so its just a mater of time.

 

[David29]

I go to car shows and other events and at times I get the question how much does it cost per charge at home, increase in electric bill, ect....
We have solar panels, got them month before Model S. Because we get energy from the panels too, I can't calculate how much energy I am using nor the cost straight up.
Anybody have figures on this using Massachusetts costs??​

Great question! I also have struggled to answer that question in a useful way. Comparing the cost to equivalent miles/gallon is probably a great idea.

For some actual Massachusetts data, here is what I can offer.
I have Eversource (Eastern MA) which, unfortunately, has among the highest cost electric rates in the entire USA.
There is no EV rate.
I have been tracking my electricity usage since August 30 when my charger was installed -- it is on a separate circuit from the rest of my household power. After a couple of months, I was able to switch to a Time of Use Rate, which saves a little money -- not as much as you might hope.

Over the winter, since the end of November when I started on the TOU rate, my average energy cost has been 18.35 cents/kwh, which includes energy, delivery, and the monthly fee for the service. For comparison, if I had been on the normal Eversource default residential rate, the average cost would have been 20.93 cents/kwh, a difference of 1.94 cents/kwh.

So using the figure of 3 miles/kwh (333 wh/mi) as mentioned above, and my (winter) average cost of $0.1835/kwh, that is 6.1 cents/mile. With the current price of gasoline in MA ($2.327 regular, $2.736 premium, per the state office of Energy and Environmental Affairs), that is equivalent to 39 mpg on regular or 45.6 mpg on premium gasoline.

With the standard residential rates instead of TOU rates, the equivalent miles per gallon would be roughly 10% less.

In fact, it might be a bit better on a year-round basis because my annual average energy use is better than the 333 wh/mile. But then again, the 333 allows for some phantom drain and for some inefficiency in the AC/DC conversion.

Also please note: These calculations are based on my usage, which is only about 1000 miles or so per month. Someone who drives more would have a somewhat lower average rate because the monthly fee ($9.99 for the TOU rate) would be spread over more kwh.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Pando]

My electric rate is a flat rate at just under $0.12/kWh, My X 75D battery holds approximately 75kWh, so that's $9 for a full charge if there's 100% efficiency, but let's assume there's only 85% efficiency, so it's actually $10.60 for a full charge, but round it up to $11. EPA Rated range is 237 miles, so that comes to $0.0464 / mile.

I tell people I pay under $0.05 for electricity per mile. Current gas prices here are $2.25/gallon, so my electric cost per mile is less than than the gasoline cost per mile for an ICE that gets an EPA rated 45 MPG.

For comparison purposes (from The Most Fuel-Efficient SUVs ):

MAKE & MODEL                   OVERALL    CITY    HIGHWAY
Toyota RAV4 Hybrid XLE         31         26      36
Lexus RX450h                   29         24      33
Lexus NX 300h                  29         23      34
Honda HR-V LX                  29         20      39
Mazda CX-3 Touring             28         20      36
Mercedes-Benz GLA 250          26         19      35
Subaru Crosstrek Premium       26         19      34
Mini Countryman S              26         19      33
Subaru Forester 2.5i Premium   26         18      35
Hyundai Tucson Sport (1.6T)    26         18      35

This list above and the website it's taken from is completely wrong, particularly the CITY column. I haven't looked up others, but the Toyota and Lexus hybrids listed there get at least mid 30s in CITY. For example, Lexus NX 300h is rated 35/31 City/Highway.

That said, electricity cost in my area is about $0.195 per kWh (EV-TOU, Super Off Peak, summer/winter average). Compared with current gasoline costs (roughly $2.57 per Gallon at Costco today), this makes a Tesla consuming 3.5 kWh per mile energy cost more per mile than a Toyota Prius consuming 50 MPG. YMMV.

What really puts the dent in your wallet is Tesla's depreciation if you buy it brand new, not to mention much higher insurance costs. So I think people who are bragging that Tesla saves them money overall are deluding themselves and others. There are many other valid reasons why you want to buy and drive a Tesla vs. a Prius.

 

[oktane]

If SCE Tier 3 in CA, you pay $0.33/kWh. Most people with average houses and EV daily driver will hit Tier 3. A safe average is 400 Wh/mi for highway usage. That means you get 2.5 miles range per kWh. On a Model S in CA, the cost is $0.13 per mile.

If the average car gets 25 mpg on the highway regular fuel, which is $2.50/gallon, it means $2.50 gets you 25 miles range, or $0.10 per mile for the average ICE.

The cost to charge at home is about equal to the cost of gasoline, for most consumers. You will have to crunch your own numbers to decide the true cost. You will save money by charging on a dedicated EV plan ($0.15/kWh to charge at night) or getting solar ($0.07/kWh over 25 years).

Assuming my only cost to me is the 20% depreciation the first year I own my $155,000 car, that is a $31,000 loss, or enough for about 10,000 gallons of premium gasoline. It would be silly to buy a Tesla thinking it will save you money in fuel compared to virtually any ICE.

 

[Pando]

Exactly. And if you charge your Tesla at $0.49 per kWh on-peak rate (at my location), this makes it cost about the same to drive (at 3.5 miles per kWh) as an ICE car consuming 18 MPG (at $2.57 per Gal).

 

[Pando]

that is a $31,000 loss, or enough for about 1,000 gallons of premium gasoline. It would be silly to buy a Tesla thinking it will save you money in fuel compared to virtually any ICE.

I think you missed a zero there. $31,000 will buy you about 10,000 gallons of premium gasoline, enough to drive a couple of hybrid ICE cars until the wheels fall off.

 

[Kant.Ing]

If SCE Tier 3 in CA, you pay $0.33/kWh.

My utility PG&E has tier 3 at .33 as well, and this is winter rate. And in summer, I believe that rate becomes $0.44/kWh!

 

[oktane]

I think you missed a zero there. $31,000 will buy you about 10,000 gallons of premium gasoline, enough to drive a couple of hybrid ICE cars until the wheels fall off.

Oops. You're right. Thanks for catching it. I'll edit if I can.

 

[oktane]

My utility PG&E has tier 3 at .33 as well, and this is winter rate. And in summer, I believe that rate becomes $0.44/kWh!

Ouch! I think for PG&E if you go time-of-use rates, it is actually much cheaper than what SCE offers ($0.09 vs. $0.15) but I could be wrong.

 

[SageBrush]

The cost to charge at home is about equal to the cost of gasoline, for most consumers.

Not even close.

The average electricity rate in the US is 12 cents a kWh
The average fuel economy is ~ 22 mpg, or less for an equivalent ICE car to a Model S or X

You can find corner cases that flip but they are far from typical. California and Hawaii are the easiest places to show expensive EV charging, particularly if the owner is paying tier 3 California rates. But those people should have PV.

I recently replaced a Honda Fit with a Nissan LEAF for our second car, local commuting duties. The EV runs off our PV and costs about 0.5 cents a mile. The Honda averaged about 38 mpg for gasoline (petrol) and would have to cost 19 cents a gallon for your statement to be true.

 

[oktane]

Not even close.

You can find corner cases that flip but they are far from typical. California and Hawaii are the easiest places to show expensive EV charging, particularly if the owner is paying tier 3 California rates.

No other way to say it, but you're wrong. You can't call the most populous state in the nation a "corner case" to twist the facts in your favor to support your pro-Tesla agenda. The numbers don't lie. My numbers are accurate and fully explained in my post, among others in this thread.

I'm happy for you that you feel the EV is cheaper than ICE, but whatever the situation, you are in the minority. There are benefits to owning a Tesla, but saving money is NOT one of them.

BTW, how much did you pay for your photo-voltaic system?

 

[SageBrush]

No other way to say it, but you're wrong. You can't call the most populous state in the nation a "corner case" to twist the facts in your favor to support your pro-Tesla agenda. The numbers don't lie. My numbers are accurate and fully explained in my post, among others in this thread.

I'm happy for you that you feel the EV is cheaper than ICE, but whatever the situation, you are in the minority. There are benefits to owning a Tesla, but saving money is NOT one of them.

BTW, how much did you pay for your photo-voltaic system?

Feeling have nothing to do with my post. You said (my bold)

The cost to charge at home is about equal to the cost of gasoline, for most consumers

This is flat out, way wrong.

If you had limited your argument to California owners paying coastal tier 3 rates you would have been ball-park, at about 15 cents a mile for a Model S/X or ICE luxury SUV. But why argue the fool's case ? And try to stay on argument: I said nothing about Tesla TCO, only about EV fuel charges.

My PV array is inexpensive, in part because I added some sweat equity. I could do it even cheaper today.
While you wait for the buffoon in the White House to start another oil war in hopes of Exxon passing on some of the profits to you.

 

[Rocky_H]

For the purposes of this discussion, if this were your bill, what number would you use for the cost per kWh?
$0.0819 (Power supply charges)?
$0.208 (total bill divided by 403 kWh)?
Something else?
View attachment 224704

I'm still in shock at how crazy that electric bill is. 54% of it in miscellaneous delivery charges?!? Now I want to go check out my recent bill because I don't think we have charges anywhere near that ludicrous level.

 

[csanders90D]

I'm also in California, and my cost per mile is $0.06. TOU rate helps a lot.

When someone asks how much it costs to fill up, I ask what MPG their car gets (e.g. 25), multiply that by my 6 cent cost, and tell them it's like having $1.50/gal gas for their car. Putting it in $/gal lets ICE drivers understand easily, and then I go on to tell them how nice it is to have that cheap "gas" delivered automatically to my garage every night.

 

[miimura]

If you're with PG&E, log onto pge.com to change the rate plan. I have 2 EVs, so EV Rate Plan charging at night is definitely the best! The Off-peak is 11PM~7AM and is $0.11/kWh.

Check it again. Rates have gone up. PG&E EV-A Off-Peak Winter is now $0.12503 and Summer is $0.12225/kWh. EV-B is slightly different but still over 12 cents. However, your point is well taken - friends don't let friends charge their EV on E-1.

 

[EinSV]

Not only do I charge at home "for free" -- I am currently being paid by PG&E to charge/drive my Model S.

The reason for that is under my earlier plan I had significant "Tier 3" charges every month at $0.44/kWh in the summer and $0.33/kWh in the winter.

Under PG&E's TOU EV-A plan, I not only charge my EV at the lowest $0.12/kWh rate, but also can schedule most of my electricity hogging uses (dishwasher, clothes washer/dryer, pool pump, etc.) for off peak rates.

So my electricity bills are consistently lower with the Model S than without it. And that's before the $500 rebate from PG&E for driving an EV.

I am able to top off at work a day or two per week but don't believe that makes a material difference since I generally fully charge at home.

 

[oktane]

California makes up 45% of Tesla sales compared to the entire rest of USA. Consumers in CA are the majority by a long shot. Most Californians are on tiered plans with SCE being the largest utility. Therefore, my argument holds for "most consumers" buying a Tesla. Not sure about the point you're trying to make. Electricity is expensive in CA compared to other states.

You owning solar or others on special TOU/EV plans do not reflect "most consumers".

Additionally, I was speaking in general to reflect what most consumers will experience. Like you, I have a PV system, and mine is massive at 16kW. I can charge my car for "free" if you exclude the massive upfront cost.

 

[EinSV]

California makes up 45% of Tesla sales compared to the entire rest of USA. Consumers in CA are the majority by a long shot. Most Californians are on tiered plans with SCE being the largest utility. Therefore, my argument holds for "most consumers" buying a Tesla. Not sure about the point you're trying to make. Electricity is expensive in CA compared to other states.

You owning solar or others on special TOU/EV plans do not reflect "most consumers".

Additionally, I was speaking in general to reflect what most consumers will experience. Like you, I have a PV system, and mine is massive at 16kW. I can charge my car for "free" if you exclude the massive upfront cost.

I am not sure if you are responding to my post but if so I don't have solar yet. I have the "standard" PG&E EV plan (EV-A). Even if they are not able to save the same amount of money I do, most Tesla owners with PG&E (the largest provider in Northern California) will pay $0.12x /kWh to charge since there is rarely a need to charge outside off-peak hours.

 

[Vern Padgett]

Tesla people.

Let's make this simple.

Solar panels don't take 13 years to pay for themselves. They pay for themselves when you install them. They increase the capital value of your property by their full cost.

Next, what does it cost to drive your Tesla? Answer: Zero. You are making your own electricity with your solar panels. You are driving on sunlight. You are driving for free.

 

[David29]

My utility PG&E has tier 3 at .33 as well, and this is winter rate. And in summer, I believe that rate becomes $0.44/kWh!

Ouch! Somehow I had gotten the impression of much lower rates in CA! A few cents/kwh. I guess my rates in MA are not the worst, after all.