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Thanks for suggestion. Is the interconnection application usually filed after installation and inspection?
Yes the interconnection request can only be submitted after successfully passing inspection. Edit - Apparently I'm wrong here as wwhitney states below. Tesla didn't submit the paperwork until after inspection and payment.

You timeline could be quite close if they do pass NEM 3.0 later this month. For me with solar panels and PW install it took 1 month to schedule the first inspection presumably due to the need to update the permits because a panel location had to be moved on install day. I didn't pass the first inspection or second inspection so it took another month to fully pass. They submitted my interconnection request about a month after completing inspection and it was rejected the next day for an error. I'm waiting for them to resubmit now although it only has been 1 business day since rejection.

All in all I'm guessing it will be ~4 months from installation until I get PTO. I also assume Tesla will be slammed with people wanting to get PTO as we approach the implementation of NEM 3.0.
 
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Thanks for suggestion. Is the interconnection application usually filed after installation and inspection?
No, at least when I did it, you can start the process beforehand by submitting your drawings, that way if it's non-standard their engineers can review it and tell you if there are issues, and they can start figuring out if they need to do equipment upgrades. After it passes initial review, you install, and submit your proof of inspection to get final approval.

Commercial companies doing large volumes who know what will be allowed may do things in a different order.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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Looks like the PG&E Interconnection Portal has been updated since I did it. Info is available at the URL below. The FAQ does make it sound like you apply and get PTO in one step, rather than the two step process I went through.

So if it is a one step process, and you are supposed to provide proof inspection as part of the initial application, then the question is what happens if you apply without that? It will get rejected, but if you can amend your submission, presumably you preserve your application date, which the NEM3 proposal say sthe "buffer period" is based on. But if you have to reapply, they could say that results in a new application date.

One could email [email protected] to ask about the above details, but I don't know how backed up that department is.


Cheers, Wayne
 
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Only if those folks know about NEM3. The recent question by a new member just found out. Wonder how. Also wonder how well solar installers will convey this to new customers.
I agree. There will be some pissed off customers who ordered solar some time ago but will get their PTO post cut off, only to find out that they wasted their money. The whole thing is shameful.
 
Only if those folks know about NEM3. The recent question by a new member just found out. Wonder how. Also wonder how well solar installers will convey this to new customers.
I found out because I happened to click on this thread the other day and started reading. My solar installer Tesla has not mentioned anything and I'm not sure how informed my advisor is with all the proposed rules.
 
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Looks like the PG&E Interconnection Portal has been updated since I did it. Info is available at the URL below. The FAQ does make it sound like you apply and get PTO in one step, rather than the two step process I went through.

So if it is a one step process, and you are supposed to provide proof inspection as part of the initial application, then the question is what happens if you apply without that? It will get rejected, but if you can amend your submission, presumably you preserve your application date, which the NEM3 proposal say sthe "buffer period" is based on. But if you have to reapply, they could say that results in a new application date.

One could email [email protected] to ask about the above details, but I don't know how backed up that department is.


Cheers, Wayne
If you complete the "advance engineering" phase, then I am told this stakes a place in the NEM 2.0 queue. I am not sure if this information is 100% but it is what I was told regarding this.
 
I actually read the entire Berkeley/Haas report, and that was not easy waste of time, I do assure you.

However, like all conclusions, even one from one of the authors of that study, I do not agree that rooftop solar is, to quote this article "costing non-solar households boatloads of money."

Before you throw around a word like "cause" - you ought to, IMO, be a bit more sure about it than the authors of this study.

On page 43, if you make it that far, you can see that even the authors, who come at it as economists, blame volumetric pricing for the whole issue, and the issue, that they see, by the way, is nothing to do with the environment, its about whether electricity bills are regresssive.

They need to move away from volumetric pricing, and its current tilt towards soaking it to all ratepayers via "peak rates" which do not correlate to the actual cost of electicity at that time of day.

Because the cost for peak power is in fact how the IOUs fund "the grid" - any movement by peak power users either by conservation or by users getting NEM credits, throws off the entire structure.

Let me offer a better, although not perfect use of the word "cause" - "mismanagement and mispricing of IOU grid costs is costing all households, including many solar households, boatloads of money."

That is what the Berkeley Haas study found. I can't help it that hardly anyone read it.
 
Thanks for your contribution, but I'll point a few things in his essay:
1. He obviously glosses over the fact that NEM3 will stop all new voluntary residential solar installations. The $8/KW fee will make it economically interesting.
2. He wants a faster phase out. Wow! How about the folks who made an investment based on a certain payback expectation?
3. He somehow sees no issue with the glaring cost discrepancy between PG&E and its neighboring IOUs.

Are we for a distributed grid or not?
 


Yeah, this writer seems to assume two things:

1) They allege rooftop solar does not reduce the need of high grid fixed costs. We've seen other posts (especially those about DER) that seem to indicate residential rooftop solar being distributed at the end-point of consumption is reducing overall grid requirements to move electricity over long distances. And from what that Zabe guy indicated; rooftop solar is simply reducing the reported demand. The CAISO doesn't see as much demand since rooftop solar export from one home may be used to power a neighbor's home and effectively offset recorded demand at a substation. This is less load on the most costly parts of the grid that have to move power over long distances.

2) The writer alleges the $2.34 cost per watt after federal taxes (it's the baseline investment value for the ROI calc in NEM 3.0) is accurate. The writer asserts the proposed NEM 3.0 rules leave a lot of upside for future homeowners to reap positive returns at this cost/investment. The CALSSA, SEIA, Aurora, et al who actually install solar on homes disagrees with this $2.34 per watt (after federal incentives).
 
Are we for a distributed grid or not?

The IOUs want to be the one to implement the DER. So I guess we're all for a DER, we just aren't aligned on who should benefit from it and who profits from the DER.

The author of Zabe's article (Bornstein) is a Boomer who is paying peanuts for taxes on his Orinda, CA home. "Fair share" my ass... I don't see him railing on Prop 13. He's got what he's wanted out of his home and investments. His home is surrounded by trees so he's never thought about getting solar. And now he's applying the mindset that people much younger than him can get bent because he believes the IOUs can invest more smartly than homeowners.

This is why I don't understand why policymakers are all in their 60s and 70s. McDonalds wouldn't even trust order-taking for a happy meal to someone in their 60s. And we have people in their 60s influencing billions of energy policy that affects millions over decades.
 
I went through this analysis when I started my install back mid last year. Thinking back, I actually wanted an install a couple years earlier, but Covid happened during that time and that threw a wrench in everything.

I read all the delays/complaints with PTO here and I'm not a knowledgeable enough person to know exactly what can get you grandfathered in NEM2.0, but I didn't want to risk it at all to save a few bucks with Tesla solar. I've always thought it was actual PTO date which grandfathered me in, but that might be because I had my final inspection just before PTO.

I think you can see some folks here say it costed them $1.85 or lower, way way back, but I think that's more like $2.05 or more now with Tesla. Depends if you want to risk it (esp if you ordered this in Apr 2021?).

I think all installers are extremely backed up to beat NEM3.0 dates so with weather issues, supply constraint issues (I ran into this), expect a tough time to schedule, get it all done. I think even Tesla sent out emails staying things are delayed. If you add storage into your install, it complicates things a tons vs. straight solar...and I was actively project managing everything so constant followups with everything.


With Tesla solar, can you just pay after it's all installed and PTO has been filed at least? Maybe you can do that and if it's pass the deadline and you're stuck with NEM3.0, don't pay and have them take everything off the roof while you wait for NEM4.0 which will fix NEM3.0.
 
It's as if every woke policy maker just figured out that industrial solar is cheaper to install than on your roof. They also discovered that people with money tend to invest in solar at a higher rate that folks with lesser means. Wow, seriously? So, as usual in CA, we are resorting to more "progressive policies" by taxing folks with money to redistribute around. The real issue is that the IOUs are bloated bureaucracies whose costs are out of control. If they were competitive like in neighboring states, folks wouldn't be that tempted to go solar, and we wouldn't have to subsidize low income residents energy bills.

Did some quick math. 1.3M residential roofs with solar is around 10,000 acres of solar panels. That's the size of a few industrial solar fields.
 
The IOUs want to be the one to implement the DER. So I guess we're all for a DER, we just aren't aligned on who should benefit from it and who profits from the DER.

The author of Zabe's article (Bornstein) is a Boomer who is paying peanuts for taxes on his Orinda, CA home. "Fair share" my ass... I don't see him railing on Prop 13. He's got what he's wanted out of his home and investments. His home is surrounded by trees so he's never thought about getting solar. And now he's applying the mindset that people much younger than him can get bent because he believes the IOUs can invest more smartly than homeowners.

This is why I don't understand why policymakers are all in their 60s and 70s. McDonalds wouldn't even trust order-taking for a happy meal to someone in their 60s. And we have people in their 60s influencing billions of energy policy that affects millions over decades.
What I don't get, whether these people are boomers or not, is the analysis which one could think all five members of the CPUC could understand.

I'm in LADWP territory, and there, the peak v. non-peak charges seem to me to roughly correspond to (1) a grid charge and (2) a charge for the electricity, because electricity is slightly more expensive during peak, so is LADWP's charges, like 19 cents to 23 cents.

Why the IOUs can't or maybe the word is "don't" do this is something maybe Zabe or whomever can answer, but their form of volumetric pricing plus -- what should I call it? -- penalty peak pricing? -- is the cause of many problems.

Being an electric utility is like being McDonalds if all McDonalds sells is one item, Quarter Pounders. McDonalds does exactly what you would expect, the price of a Quarter Pounder is what it is, regardless of the time of day and regardless of how much of a fat, Quarter Pounder eating pig you might be personally. You can order one Quarter Pounder or six Quarter Pounders and the price per Quarter Pounder is the same. Sure, McDonalds could have said, "hmm. .... we sell more Quarter Pounders at this time, let's charge double the price then." But McDonalds knows that if they did that, word would get around and no one would buy Quarter Pounders when the price was double. It is not that hard for McDonalds to just go look, based on our overhead, and the fact that we know we can sell whatever, a million Quarter Pounders a year, the price this year can be $5.42 or whatever.

This is where I get angry. Who are the IOUs kidding? They know that the ability of the entire user base to cut off air conditioning in a 100 degree day is basically non-existent -- but its priced as if people could actually elect to do so. Penalty Peak Pricing is not some clever move to get people to conserve energy, its fundamental to IOU pricing structure!

I'd would love to see a chart of IOU profitability BY THE HOUR. During peak time profitability is off the charts.

So now, for the IOUs, the unthinkable occurs, the technology of rooftop solar and its costs gets to a point where alot of people start going for it. That means those people, are now doing what the IOUs knew would not happen, actually decreasing revenue for the IOUs from the Penalty Peak Pricing phase of the day!!

They are the CPUC, they can actually force the IOUs to at least, behave more like LADWP, so I don't know why they would fall for the argument that rooftop solar is causing people who don't have it money.
 
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Yeah, this writer seems to assume two things:

1) They allege rooftop solar does not reduce the need of high grid fixed costs. We've seen other posts (especially those about DER) that seem to indicate residential rooftop solar being distributed at the end-point of consumption is reducing overall grid requirements to move electricity over long distances. And from what that Zabe guy indicated; rooftop solar is simply reducing the reported demand. The CAISO doesn't see as much demand since rooftop solar export from one home may be used to power a neighbor's home and effectively offset recorded demand at a substation. This is less load on the most costly parts of the grid that have to move power over long distances.

2) The writer alleges the $2.34 cost per watt after federal taxes (it's the baseline investment value for the ROI calc in NEM 3.0) is accurate. The writer asserts the proposed NEM 3.0 rules leave a lot of upside for future homeowners to reap positive returns at this cost/investment. The CALSSA, SEIA, Aurora, et al who actually install solar on homes disagrees with this $2.34 per watt (after federal incentives).
And, what happens when that federal incentive disappears? It is not a permanent incentive. It is already down by 4 points.

Yes, indeed. Excess generation ends up in a neighborhood, especially if there isn't a lot of solar in that neighborhood, like mine. We have 2 in a 69 home HOA.
I could always run an extension cord to my good neighbor. :D
 
Hello Everyone
The Gov had a press conference today. The Sacramento Bee headline: Gavin Newsom seeks to reclaim California’s status as climate change leader in his budget. He commented on the CPUC NEM 3.0 proposal
From the Bee article: Newsom waded into one of the hottest environmental controversies facing the state, saying he wants the Public Utilities Commission to reconsider its plan to slash subsidies paid by PG&E Corp. and other major utilities to owners of rooftop solar panels who ship excess power to the electricity grid.
“We have work to do,” he said.
He suggested discussions are already underway to tweak the proposal. “Many parties, many conversations, lots of balls in the air,” he said.
The commission is scheduled to vote on the proposal Jan. 27. Solar power advocates have said the commission’s plan would cripple their industry.

Here is the link to the full Bee Article. If the article is behind a paywall see attached PDF file

Interesting comment but who knows what "work" will be done on the proposal. But putting pressure on the Gov is working. We have his attention. We need to keep the pressure on.
 
One of the pieces of information the IOUs have that we don't - how much it really costs them to have peaker generators ready to go for the evenings of the hottest summer days where the end of the duck curve bites them.
The TOU punitive rate is their way of recovering that, but it's never clear if they still make a profit during that time. I expect the TOU difference more than pays for it. How much do they deserve?
In the worst case scenario, and peaker generators cannot come on line fast enough, they have to shed loads (and have done so); but there is basically no penalty to them for doing so if it's only residential users who suffer.
Is the California grid really at risk of cascading blackouts if they can't shed effectively? My guess is yes, but only if some high voltage transmission wires are already broken.
 
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