Dead Model S/40 (is it the 12v?)

[aaron0k]

In the driveway. Unplugged. Door handles extend. Got in. Two black displays and nothing... <crap>. It's Xmas... I'll deal with it later and drove the other car (with the irony of a 2012 salvaged Fisker being my backup).

Day later. Keyfob not responding. Doors no longer open. Tesla tells me I'm out of warranty... 'its probably the 12v, try a jump start'.

Got the doors to open via a 750amp portable battery/jumper to the 12v terminals. Displays still black, will not go into drive or open the charge door (via keyfob). 12v dies minutes after I disconnect the jumper. The 12v was replaced by a ranger 3 months ago (previous 2013 battery lasted until 2018).

Before I flatbed it into a SC... any ideas what it could be? Maybe the 750amp jumper isn't not enough to push the 12v to connect the main battery?

 

[RandyS]

Sounds like a 12 volt problem if you were able to put a portable battery on it and the 12 volt system dies minutes after removing it. But shouldn't you have some sort of warranty if you had a new 12 volt battery installed just 3 months ago? There is a constant 40-50 watt load on the 12 volt system due to the first generation electronics, so the batteries tend to get more charge/discharge cycles than one might think, but it should last longer than 3 months.

 

[Tam]

...jump start...

It's not a traditional jump start that you need a lot of power to crank a starter.

A normal constant voltage/current would be fine for electronic components.

The goal is to supply 12V to electronic equipment which you do not need a lot of power (unlike traditional starter that needs a lot of crank amp power.)

You shouldn't worry about your main battery pack until can wake up 2 display screens.

The Battery Management System requires 12V to function to manage your 400V main battery pack.

So the 12V does not manage the 400V main battery pack itself. Its job is to wake up the Battery Management System, and the Battery Management System would deal with the 400V main battery pack.

Sounds like you just need another 12V battery.

You might invest in a voltmeter or the one that can plug into a cigarette socket.

 

[.jg.]

You could use the manual method to open the frunk and check 12V connections and fuses/breakers. In particular, it may be worth checking if the earth connections for the 12V systems are good. I would be careful what sort of 12V supply is connected to the 12V system i.e. it should be relatively clean and the voltage should not be too high e.g. another 12V battery would be ideal.

 

[N..8]

Charge the 12v battery up all the way, then attempt to wake the car up. It sounds like you put enough into the 12v to open the doors but not enough to run the computers. Without them the HV contactors won't engage to start the DC/DC "charger".

 

[ewoodrick]

A 750A handheld charging system isn't something much more than a marketing gimmick. 750A for maybe 5 seconds.
What you need is something that will charge the battery up, that's going to be something that probably takes an hour or so. A charger from a motor supply or even boat 12V charger that plugs into the wall and provides about 6A continuous charging is what you tend to want.

 

[aaron0k]

Charge the 12v battery up all the way, then attempt to wake the car up.

A charger from a motor supply or even boat 12V charger that plugs into the wall and provides about 6A continuous charging is what you tend to want.

Picked up a charger and fully charged the 12v. Doors open etc, unfortunately the car still won't turn on. Both displays black. I guess I'll have to tow it.

 

[N..8]

Before you go paying for a tow truck, I would disconnect the HV battery and the 12v. Wait a few minutes then plug them back in.

 

[henderrj]

Before you go paying for a tow truck, I would disconnect the HV battery and the 12v. Wait a few minutes then plug them back in.

Disconnect the HV battery? I'm not aware that that would be possible by an end user. Not with any normal amount of tools anyway. But I think disconnecting the 12-volt battery and then reconnecting it might possibly do the job. Long shot but why not try it?

 

[aaron0k]

Disconnect the HV battery? I'm not aware that that would be possible by an end user. Not with any normal amount of tools anyway. But I think disconnecting the 12-volt battery and then reconnecting it might possibly do the job. Long shot but why not try it?

I assume pulling the first responder loop and waiting a few minutes then putting it back would do the trick for the HV?

However getting to the 12v terminals on a 2013 appears to be a bit of work.

 

[Cyclone]

I would suggest doing a search here for "fuse pull" (or something similar to it) to see which fuse controls the MCU, gateway, and other major 12v computer systems. Pull that fuse for a few minutes, then put it back in. That is something folks used to do sometimes when the computers would get very stuck. Hopefully that lets you avoid a tow!

 

[Evoforce]

If you have to have a new 12V consider going lithium with Element3batteries. They also have an install video on their website.

 

[henderrj]

I assume pulling the first responder loop and waiting a few minutes then putting it back would do the trick for the HV?

However getting to the 12v terminals on a 2013 appears to be a bit of work.

There is no high voltage disconnect Loop for emergency crews. If you watch the video you'll see that all it does is disconnect a 12 volt battery which means that the relay to connect the high voltage battery will not turn on. Besides all this, the high voltage battery has absolutely nothing to do with the running of the computer equipment on the car. That that all runs off the 12 volt system. Without a 12 volt battery you haven't got anything.

It's actually quite easy to get to the 12 volt system. Just pulled a nose cone off and jump the terminals there.

 

[aaron0k]

After 2 failed attempts at a tow (AAA), Tesla Mobile sent out one of their partners and I got it to a SC.

Their first diagnosis was the Body Control Module. However they called back a few days later and told me I had to have the main display/MCU replaced (SERVICE MCU KIT - NORTH AMERICA (1452455-00-C)

I was perplexed, as I thought when the MCU dies; you could still at least drive the car? I went ahead had them replace it; they later also said the charge port was broken and needed to be replaced (INLET,ASY,EV (1005612-00-K),

Never had any issues with the MCU, displays or the chargeport prior to this event.

Sucks that these early MCU's seem to fail frequently.

My wallet took quite a hit.

 

[N..8]

Aaron, did you ask for the old parts back.

 

[aaron0k]

Aaron, did you ask for the old parts back.

Short answer: Yes, but they refused.

When they told me the MCU needed to be replaced and I would be paying full price (no core credit); I specifically told them I wanted the old MCU back (before work began). They said ok.

Upon picking up the vehicle and requesting the old MCU/Display, they told me Tesla HQ specifically told them not to give it back.

I showed them the California law that requires them to give the old part back if there is no core credit or warranty applied; they refused and said they need to wait for some documentation from Tesla. They wouldn't tell me what the documentation would say or commit to giving me the part back once they had it.

I'll be following up with them in a few days...

 

[aaron0k]

I was able to pick up my old MCU. There was no document/procedure they needed to get from Tesla.

They said there was some confusion as to whether I had paid full price for the replacement part, and once they determined that I had, they were cleared to release it back to me. A dubious excuse, since they're the ones who told me in the first place that I had to pay full price...

They also mentioned that they've never had anyone ask for their parts back. I think someone went and read California law.

Still makes me wonder; if the MCU dies like mine did... while driving, does the car just shut off completely? Do you need to hold your foot on the brake until help arrives?

 

[fabionomaz]

I was able to pick up my old MCU. There was no document/procedure they needed to get from Tesla.

They said there was some confusion as to whether I had paid full price for the replacement part, and once they determined that I had, they were cleared to release it back to me. A dubious excuse, since they're the ones who told me in the first place that I had to pay full price...

They also mentioned that they've never had anyone ask for their parts back. I think someone went and read California law.

Still makes me wonder; if the MCU dies like mine did... while driving, does the car just shut off completely? Do you need to hold your foot on the brake until help arrives?

Just out of curiosity- What are your plans with the busted MCU?

• Cool skateboard?
• Pet ramp?
  
• Or my favorite- Frame it on the wall and hack it to display your invoice from Tesla in case your eyes are dry and you need some tears.

 

[Brass Guy]

At least keep the touch screen off the MCU for when yours starts bubbling. Or sell it to recoup some of your losses.

All those replacement parts reminds me of repair shops trying to fix emissions problems. "It could be X, or it might be Y. X costs less, what would you like to do? Oh X didn't fix it so we replaced Y too." I wonder if any of your replaced parts weren't faulty at all.

 

[aaron0k]

Just out of curiosity- What are your plans with the busted MCU?

It's going to another TMC member who has a use for it.