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Dealing with the Anti EV crowd on social media

Xambler

Member
Dec 17, 2019
182
185
Cape Coral, Fl
I used to just ignore the anti everything crowd, but in recent years realized that if they are the only ones plastering comments on social media sites with minimal efforts to correct their misinformation, well there is a good percentage of the people out there that believe whatever they read. I started blasting facts and real life information back at people that posted mis/dis/malinformation on Facebook and LinkedIn posts about new EV advances…good pastime while watching TV in the evenings :).

After a bit of this, I decided to start jamming the info into a website as you end up repeating yourself a lot…and typing on an iPad or tiny iPhone SE is a bit slow. Creating a website from an iPad using google sites is a pain in the butt, but figured I would run the first iteration past people on this forum. It’s crude and I still need to proofread it, someday, but I’m still adding to it every day so take it with a grain of salt. If anyone sees anything incorrect or outdated in it, let me know. Also, my math is based on my Model 3 Stealth and my miles per kWh might be a bit lower than others because after only 26,000 miles I kind of drive it a bit hard (the 0-60 in 3.0 second thing and, well, mountain curves :)).

Do I think this info ever changes the antiev crowds minds? Not likely as they have hidden agendas, although a few have apologized saying that they had just heard the misinfo from friends. Mostly interested in giving new readers of those misinformation posts at least an alternate perspective that they can just go ahead and research themselves.

In any case, here is the site…I know…all the good site names were taken, but this is easy to remember 😈: www.AntiAntiEV.com
 

Xambler

Member
Dec 17, 2019
182
185
Cape Coral, Fl
With over 95% of the people on the Planet still buying gassers instead of EVs, it only makes sense that many of them feel the need to justify their purchases. Change is hard for many, and they will tend to cling to their old ways till it becomes inevitable.
Yep, I don’t mind people that want to wait…no hurry actually with EVs so backlogged on orders anyway. Just try to counter the people who choose to aggressively push misinformation and disinformation that actually convinces others to wait or even pass along the same incorrect info In turn. Typically after correcting most of these peoples misinfo a few times they just devolve into name calling (liberal, tree hugger, etc) and leave the comment section in a huff 🙂.
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,569
11,938
United States
There are two kinds of people when it concerns ICE phase outs.


Screen Shot 2021-11-29 at 9.44.25 PM.png
 

MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
452
279
Houston
There are two kinds of people when it concerns ICE phase outs.
ICE will never go away, there will be legitimate need for them forever (not counting keeping antiques operational).
Around 90% of devices can be readily replaced by E in all manner of applications, but that 10% will stay, and they should. (read that @h2ofun ?)

One area that will remain ICE is aircraft. Weight is paramount, and a Li-ion pack simply is too heavy (low energy density) and still maintain useful load and useful range.
The nail is the cost of BEA will also be astronomically high too, at least 3x what a comparable gas.
And yes, I know of the oversized quad-copters, but their range is tiny.
 
Last edited:

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,263
741
auburn, ca
ICE will never go away, there will be legitimate need for them forever (not counting keeping antiques operational).
Around 90% of devices can be readily replaced by E in all manner of applications, but that 10% will stay, and they should. (read that @h2ofun ?)

One area that will remain ICE is aircraft. Weight is paramount, and a Li-ion pack simply is too heavy (low energy density) and still maintain useful load and useful range.
The nail is the cost of BEA will also be astronomically high too, at least 3x what a comparable gas.
And yes, I know of the oversized quad-copters, but their range is tiny.
I loved the real world testing of EV's mileage when used in the real world with AC or heating on. Why does no one talk about how drastic this impacts range?

Or the article I just read about a person towing with the new EV truck that I believe dropped the range by 65%?

Yep, I will stick with my ICE cars until I die and never have to worry about using something in the real world. Unless someone wants to give me a free EV.
 
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MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
452
279
Houston
I loved the real world testing of EV's mileage when used in the real world with AC or heating on. Why does no one talk about how drastic this impacts range?
Sure EV has limitation, and in other areas so does ICE have limits.
People should choose the vehicle that works for them, whatever that may be.
I do not label you as "evil" for using ICE stuff, and I will vigorously oppose eliminating all ICE machines (I do encourage going E).

EV is a completely different style of driving vs ICE, I know what to expect and will adjust to it. Our other call will still be an ICE for a number of years.
 
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Xambler

Member
Dec 17, 2019
182
185
Cape Coral, Fl
ICE will never go away, there will be legitimate need for them forever (not counting keeping antiques operational).
Around 90% of devices can be readily replaced by E in all manner of applications, but that 10% will stay, and they should. (read that @h2ofun ?)

One area that will remain ICE is aircraft. Weight is paramount, and a Li-ion pack simply is too heavy (low energy density) and still maintain useful load and useful range.
The nail is the cost of BEA will also be astronomically high too, at least 3x what a comparable gas.
And yes, I know of the oversized quad-copters, but their range is tiny.
I think the short term approach for flight will be a hybrid. Basically electric motors going up powered by a hydrogen fuel cell…VTOL style, so no need for an elevator/tail section, btw. Goal being able to get to a very high altitude where battery driven electric motors and blades optimized for thin atmosphere take over for the full flight (minimal air resistance, so supersonic speed is easy and low energy cost), then, at destination, straight down recharging batteries on the way through regeneration (gravity returns the cost of going up)…maybe even using extra electricity going down to recover hydrogen via electrolysis but that might be a stretch.

The problem normal airplanes and jets have is they are optimized for gas mileage at a specific flight level…that includes engines, flight surfaces, and even the speed they fly at. Elon Musk discussed this a while back more from the full electric battery driven approach so basically said intercontinental wouldn’t be possible without at least a doubling of battery density, so I’m guessing some hybrid approach like this might fit the bill. Gotta have something for hydrogen to do in the future…don’t see it for cars.

Just some blue sky thinking :)
 

Xambler

Member
Dec 17, 2019
182
185
Cape Coral, Fl
I loved the real world testing of EV's mileage when used in the real world with AC or heating on. Why does no one talk about how drastic this impacts range?

Or the article I just read about a person towing with the new EV truck that I believe dropped the range by 65%?

Yep, I will stick with my ICE cars until I die and never have to worry about using something in the real world. Unless someone wants to give me a free EV.
What specifically is your question on AC or heating? For local daily driving (where cost is more of a concern than range) any reduction is inconsequential as
1] AC has less impact on mileage in my Tesla than it does on a comparable gas car, and
2) with the advanced octovalve heat pump design in Tesla cars, the impact on heating the EV in the winter is comparable to gas mileage loss ICE cars experience in cold conditions.
Why inconsequential? Simply because even if my range in town dropped from say 50 miles per kWh to only 40 miles per kWh, at 10 cents per kWh at home charging I’m paying a whopping $1.00 to drive 40 miles. So no big deal

Now for road trips, let’s say your AC uses 2 miles range up per hour (I tested this several times waiting for my wife at urgent care in hot Florida sun this summer and saw it drop just under 2 miles range per hour with AC running and while watching a Netflix movie on the car screen). So, drive at 80 mph for 3 hrs, you lose 6 miles of range out of 240 miles driven, not a big deal either. Had heat on this morning at 34 degrees and didn’t notice a change of wh per mile at all, which was weird but might have been getting heat through the glass roof. At down around -30 to -40 (I grew up in Mn) your gas cars have horrible gas mileage and EVs will lose 20-30% of their higher speed range even with a heat pump as they heat both the batteries and you. On flip side you will likely drive slower at -40 degrees so will get better mileage :). My experience is with a Model 3 Stealth if that helps. Curious what others with pre heat pump vehicles in bitter cold experience.

As to range dropping when towing…my Tahoe with 19 mpg went down to 9 mpg on a 1100 mile trip towing a large Uhaul trailer. No big surprise there and we were definitely not driving at our faster cruising speed we typically drive at. Be surprised if the cyber truck or Ford F-150 drop range by as much as you stated, though. Heavy vehicles already and not that aerodynamic anyway.
 

MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
452
279
Houston
Just some blue sky thinking :)
Boeing produced a study called "SUGAR" that proposed an (IIRC) an all electric commuter aircraft.
It was feasible, but clear limitations. I thought the same as you about hybrid engines, JetA for take-off and emergency, and battery for cruise. Now I know cold temp is bad for battery, so engine will also provide heat.
Perhaps use 1/3 the AvGas compared to non-hybrid aircraft?
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,263
741
auburn, ca
What specifically is your question on AC or heating? For local daily driving (where cost is more of a concern than range) any reduction is inconsequential as
1] AC has less impact on mileage in my Tesla than it does on a comparable gas car, and
2) with the advanced octovalve heat pump design in Tesla cars, the impact on heating the EV in the winter is comparable to gas mileage loss ICE cars experience in cold conditions.
Why inconsequential? Simply because even if my range in town dropped from say 50 miles per kWh to only 40 miles per kWh, at 10 cents per kWh at home charging I’m paying a whopping $1.00 to drive 40 miles. So no big deal

Now for road trips, let’s say your AC uses 2 miles range up per hour (I tested this several times waiting for my wife at urgent care in hot Florida sun this summer and saw it drop just under 2 miles range per hour with AC running and while watching a Netflix movie on the car screen). So, drive at 80 mph for 3 hrs, you lose 6 miles of range out of 240 miles driven, not a big deal either. Had heat on this morning at 34 degrees and didn’t notice a change of wh per mile at all, which was weird but might have been getting heat through the glass roof. At down around -30 to -40 (I grew up in Mn) your gas cars have horrible gas mileage and EVs will lose 20-30% of their higher speed range even with a heat pump as they heat both the batteries and you. On flip side you will likely drive slower at -40 degrees so will get better mileage :). My experience is with a Model 3 Stealth if that helps. Curious what others with pre heat pump vehicles in bitter cold experience.

As to range dropping when towing…my Tahoe with 19 mpg went down to 9 mpg on a 1100 mile trip towing a large Uhaul trailer. No big surprise there and we were definitely not driving at our faster cruising speed we typically drive at. Be surprised if the cyber truck or Ford F-150 drop range by as much as you stated, though. Heavy vehicles already and not that aerodynamic anyway.
Again, great if an EV works for you. It does not me and I get tired of some trying to shovel it down my throat. You do what makes you happy, I do the same
 
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15Peter20

Member
Supporting Member
Oct 26, 2020
611
3,891
Norfolk
I used to just ignore the anti everything crowd, but in recent years realized that if they are the only ones plastering comments on social media sites with minimal efforts to correct their misinformation, well there is a good percentage of the people out there that believe whatever they read. I started blasting facts and real life information back at people that posted mis/dis/malinformation on Facebook and LinkedIn posts about new EV advances…good pastime while watching TV in the evenings :).

After a bit of this, I decided to start jamming the info into a website as you end up repeating yourself a lot…and typing on an iPad or tiny iPhone SE is a bit slow. Creating a website from an iPad using google sites is a pain in the butt, but figured I would run the first iteration past people on this forum. It’s crude and I still need to proofread it, someday, but I’m still adding to it every day so take it with a grain of salt. If anyone sees anything incorrect or outdated in it, let me know. Also, my math is based on my Model 3 Stealth and my miles per kWh might be a bit lower than others because after only 26,000 miles I kind of drive it a bit hard (the 0-60 in 3.0 second thing and, well, mountain curves :)).

Do I think this info ever changes the antiev crowds minds? Not likely as they have hidden agendas, although a few have apologized saying that they had just heard the misinfo from friends. Mostly interested in giving new readers of those misinformation posts at least an alternate perspective that they can just go ahead and research themselves.

In any case, here is the site…I know…all the good site names were taken, but this is easy to remember 😈: www.AntiAntiEV.com
Nice site, even in its incomplete form. Kudos!
 

Xambler

Member
Dec 17, 2019
182
185
Cape Coral, Fl
Again, great if an EV works for you. It does not me and I get tired of some trying to shovel it down my throat. You do what makes you happy, I do the same
I know why I am in a Tesla Forum. Not a clue why you are if you really aren’t interested in EVs. Talk about trying to shove (mis)info down peoples throats :). You act like someone walking into a crowded bar, yelling out “I hate alcohol”, then going around trying to tell everyone that they shouldn’t drink alcohol, then complaining that everyone you talk to is trying to force you to drink alcohol, but you don’t really care if people drink anyway. So, I guess complaining just makes you happy.
 
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h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,263
741
auburn, ca
I know why I am in a Tesla Forum. Not a clue why you are if you really aren’t interested in EVs. Talk about trying to shove (mis)info down peoples throats :). You act like someone walking into a crowded bar, yelling out “I hate alcohol”, then going around trying to tell everyone that they shouldn’t drink alcohol, then complaining that everyone you talk to is trying to force you to drink alcohol, but you don’t really care if people drink anyway. So, I guess complaining just makes you happy.
Because I have 5 tesla powerwalls. And yep, I do not drink any alcohol :)
 

Xambler

Member
Dec 17, 2019
182
185
Cape Coral, Fl
Because I have 5 tesla powerwalls. And yep, I do not drink any alcohol :)
Ah, good point. Apologies. I could have sworn I started this post in the M3 forum…must have been switched here when I was searching to see if anyone else was discussing misinformation. I amend my comparison to you eating at a restaurant then and objecting to people drinking wine at your table then…that’s not so bad :).
 

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