Did Tesla lose focus by making the Model 3 an autonomous car instead of a great EV?

[Sonny Daze]

All they need to do is trash that horrific looking 2 spoke steering wheel and put in a nice one and all will be chill.

They have, but don't expect to see this one either.

 

[eisbock]

You want an EV that looks like a normal (ICE) car.

That's the problem with being in our era of ever-evolving technology.

Once an OEM moves on from something (or in Tesla's case, never made a car that way in the first place), they're not going to go back to cater to a shrinking or non-existent customer base.

You don't find many TVs with knobs or built-in rabbit ears these days, do you?

How about home phones that have answering machines built in.....degree of difficulty....answering machines with TAPE....??

There are still plenty of ICE vehicles out there you can buy. But while you're bemoaning wanting a "normal" EV, you yourself even noted:

So why are you even bothering to look? Clearly this isn't your moment in time to be looking at EVs. Move along. Your blood pressure will thank you.

I am in the market for a new car and I want an EV now. I'm not willing to wait another 10 years to start looking again. That's not unreasonable.

I like what Tesla did with the Model S. I'm sure there was tons of initial apprehension with screen, but all it really did was consolidate mechanical buttons into a touch screen. It was still a normal car with normal functions.

Model 3 neutered some of those normal functions that are expected in cars for no reason. Regardless of functionality, the glued-on iPad is cheap, lazy, and inelegant. That's the first issue. Are you kidding me? This is no different than me sticking my phone to the suction cup I velcroed to the dash. I can't believe Tesla is paying designers hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up with this. It's laughable and a little embarrassing.

The second issue is of course functionality. The screen is not practical. Especially a landscape screen that is precariously mounted and easily susceptible to damage and/or theft. I would think a giant out of place screen would actually encourage theft. It's just asking for a good window-smashing and screen-grabbing.

One of the benefits to keyless start is no hanging keys. This reduces knee injury in crashes and nobody is bothered by dangling keys brushing or bumping into their legs while driving. Now instead of continuing to move forward by removing obstructions from the driver's cabin, we've done gone and added another: the corner of the screen. I'm not even sure how safe this thing is in a crash. The screen could become a thin, glass-filled frisbee under the right circumstances. Imagine getting hit from the side and having that thing turn into a guillotine that shoots right into your jugular.

This is one of the reasons that I think it may become integrated into the dash similar to the Model X prototype. But I doubt it, because then it would either be too far away from the driver (that was the point of putting it on the stalk), or the dash will have to surge forward into the cabin to become one with the screen.

I've already harped on the lack of dash screen enough and how that affects functionality and practicality of a single center-mounted screen so I'll leave that alone.

Point is, Model S did it right. Model 3 is a step in the wrong direction for the sake of being different and "hoping" this is the next big thing in automotive interior design. Quite a gamble for the car that will surge Tesla to a trillion dollar company or bankrupt their asses.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I am in the market for a new car and I want an EV now. I'm not willing to wait another 10 years to start looking again. That's not unreasonable.

I want a flying car. Now is not that time.


As for the rest of your post.........

If you've seen the Production Candidate's interior, please share with us. You would be fairly popular on this page if you've seen it before any of us (and had pics, don't tell us your sister's cousin's best friend's neighbor's bookie's tailor saw one but "couldn't get his phone out in time").

Until then, I mean, you could just chill a little...maybe? We don't know yet what the finished product is. Maybe you could just save up for a CPO Model S? It sounds like you aspire to one. Go for it!

 

[eisbock]

They have, but don't expect to see this one either.

I'm gonna laugh so hard when the steering wheel is pretty much the same. After all, you're trying to reduce complexity, right? Making the wheel any more complex would just add cost, right? Adding a screen was too expensive and complex for the Model X, so they dropped that idea. Mechanical buttons are expensive, that's why Model 3 has no other buttons in the entire damn car, so why put buttons on the steering wheel?

That Porsche Felix Godard guy must be laughing his way to the bank right now. Easiest design job ever.

Truth be told, I'm quite interested in what the steering wheel will look like in a car designed for autonomy. I can't imagine it'll be anything special, but that's one of the things Tesla and Elon have been the most mum about. Maybe they'll do something funky with the shifter, but remember, it won't be anything that hasn't already been done on the Model S, so there's really not much I can see them doing.

 

[eisbock]

I want a flying car. Now is not that time.


As for the rest of your post.........

If you've seen the Production Candidate's interior, please share with us. You would be fairly popular on this page if you've seen it before any of us (and had pics, don't tell us your sister's cousin's best friend's neighbor's bookie's tailor saw one but "couldn't get his phone out in time").

Until then, I mean, you could just chill a little...maybe? We don't know yet what the finished product is. Maybe you could just save up for a CPO Model S? It sounds like you aspire to one. Go for it!

But flying cars don't even exist!

That candidate video shows the screen still floating as far as I can tell, but can't see the bottom so it may be integrated better there.

I would buy an S, but I just can't justify spending that kind of money. Even less so for a used car that will still have expensive maintenance and repair costs. I would never buy a Tesla without the full 8 year ESA for obvious reasons. But that's another discussion.

I'm just riled up that this whole Model 3 thing I've been hyping myself up for over the last several years could be a disappointment and a waste of time when it doesn't have to be.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

But flying cars don't even exist!

That candidate video shows the screen still floating as far as I can tell, but can't see the bottom so it may be integrated better there.

I would buy an S, but I just can't justify spending that kind of money. Even less so for a used car that will still have expensive maintenance and repair costs. I would never buy a Tesla without the full 8 year ESA for obvious reasons. But that's another discussion.

I'm just riled up that this whole Model 3 thing I've been hyping myself up for over the last several years could be a disappointment and a waste of time when it doesn't have to be.

Airbus is supposed to be testing a flying car by the end of this year....but I digress.


It sounds to me like you've hyped up a $35,000 car to be better than a $70,000 car, but are disappointed that you likely won't be able to get the cheaper car made the EXACT way you want it.

So, again, if you don't like the Model 3 post-reveal....save those pennies and get a 60D (new or used) till you figure it out.

 

[Skotty]

They have, but don't expect to see this one either.

This one is fine. Totally fixes the interior for me. :-D

 

[N5329K]

Airbus didn't really come up with a "flying car". More a "flying mobility concept."
AKA "pod". Absent any real information from Tesla, we're all barking at squirrels too high to catch. Just have to wait and see, then decide.
Robin

 

[dsvick]

Not even a little bit arrogant to tell people they do not need something that they clearly ask for and give no explanation as to why you think their concerns are covered and they shouldn't worry? Confidence has its limits.

It's no more arrogant than any other company making a design choice. At some point someone has to say "let's change this" or nothing ever changes. Tesla stood up and said that, they might be wrong, but at least they did it. No one has to buy it if they don't like it.

I need that information by 16 April (their date, not mine). I don't have it.

What happens April 16th?

There is no other car out there that meets my expectations. They were simple. I wanted an affordable EV in an ICE package. By "ICE package" I mean not a weirdmobile.

If you stripped all the bells and whistles off the Model S, that would be the car I was looking for. Basically the Model 3 with proper displays. And don't you tell me that extra screen is what adds $35k to the base price. Maybe a little less weirdness with the body design too.

I was hoping to find the same in the Model 3, because Tesla's mission is supposed to be compelling EVs. The mission is now autonomous driving.

All EVs are strange right now, and Tesla was supposed to change that. Instead, they just added another weird EV to the mix, meaning still only the rich can afford to drive a normal-looking/functioning EV. If Tesla didn't have the legacy of the Model S to back them up right now, they'd be laughed off the stage with the Model 3.

Again, if it isn't compelling for you, then don't buy it. There are several other car companies working on EVs, perhaps one of those will suit your needs. It is silly to be upset at Tesla for not meeting your expectations.

I like what Tesla did with the Model S. I'm sure there was tons of initial apprehension with screen, but all it really did was consolidate mechanical buttons into a touch screen. It was still a normal car with normal functions.

Model 3 neutered some of those normal functions that are expected in cars for no reason. Regardless of functionality, the glued-on iPad is cheap, lazy, and inelegant. That's the first issue. Are you kidding me? This is no different than me sticking my phone to the suction cup I velcroed to the dash. I can't believe Tesla is paying designers hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up with this. It's laughable and a little embarrassing.

The second issue is of course functionality. The screen is not practical. Especially a landscape screen that is precariously mounted and easily susceptible to damage and/or theft. I would think a giant out of place screen would actually encourage theft. It's just asking for a good window-smashing and screen-grabbing.

One of the benefits to keyless start is no hanging keys. This reduces knee injury in crashes and nobody is bothered by dangling keys brushing or bumping into their legs while driving. Now instead of continuing to move forward by removing obstructions from the driver's cabin, we've done gone and added another: the corner of the screen. I'm not even sure how safe this thing is in a crash. The screen could become a thin, glass-filled frisbee under the right circumstances. Imagine getting hit from the side and having that thing turn into a guillotine that shoots right into your jugular.

This is one of the reasons that I think it may become integrated into the dash similar to the Model X prototype. But I doubt it, because then it would either be too far away from the driver (that was the point of putting it on the stalk), or the dash will have to surge forward into the cabin to become one with the screen.

I've already harped on the lack of dash screen enough and how that affects functionality and practicality of a single center-mounted screen so I'll leave that alone.

Point is, Model S did it right. Model 3 is a step in the wrong direction for the sake of being different and "hoping" this is the next big thing in automotive interior design. Quite a gamble for the car that will surge Tesla to a trillion dollar company or bankrupt their asses.

If there is that much about the car that bothers you then you should really just cancel your reservation and begin the search/wait for a car that will meet your expectations. If you go forward and purchase it with that entire list of things you don't like then you'll have only yourself to blame if you end up not liking it.

 

[electracity]

(FWIW: rhetorical question, as anyone who believes that 2 companies that have no levels of autonomy currently in customers hands are "leading" is an idiot.)

Waymo has no level of autonomy in customer hands.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Waymo has no level of autonomy in customer hands.

I get your point, but I only mentioned Ford and GM......


that whole study appeared to have been funded with the understanding that the predetermined outcome would be reached.

 

[Sonny Daze]

What happens April 16th?

The S60 is no longer available.

 

[electracity]

I get your point, but I only mentioned Ford and GM......


that whole study appeared to have been funded with the understanding that the predetermined outcome would be reached.

Not getting your point. Ford and GM have more levels of ADAS available in production cars than Tesla. Both also have large and long-lived autonomy projects.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Not getting your point. Ford and GM have more levels of ADAS available in production cars than Tesla. Both also have large and long-lived autonomy projects.

What vehicles are in consumers hands that are higher levels of ADAS than AP1, Summon, or even (the currently-not-up-to-full-potential) AP2?

 

[electracity]

What vehicles are in consumers hands that are higher levels of ADAS than AP1, Summon, or even (the currently-not-up-to-full-potential) AP2?

1) AP1 is irrelevant, as Tesla lost the right to sell that technology.
2) Summons is largely a gimmick, and still hasn't met the originally announced functionality.
3) If I read the 8.1 thread correctly, all major manufacturers have more ADAS functionality implemented.

The first post in this thread is interesting, but look the optimists posting towards the end:

Why AP 2.0 Won't Be Here Soon, and It Won't Be What You Think It Is

 

[ModelNforNerd]

1) AP1 is irrelevant, as Tesla lost the right to sell that technology.
2) Summons is largely a gimmick, and still hasn't met the originally announced functionality.
3) If I read the 8.1 thread correctly, all major manufacturers have more ADAS functionality implemented.

The first post in this thread is interesting, but look the optimists posting towards the end:

Why AP 2.0 Won't Be Here Soon, and It Won't Be What You Think It Is

1) It is relevant. It's in consumers hands right now, and has been since 2014, not to mention, Tesla retains the right to push software updates to it. (Do you really think major OEMs are going completely out on their own to build out ADAS?)

2) It's in consumers' hands, and can meet its potential via software updates, not "2021".

3) Again.....you're missing the entire point. It's in consumers' hands, and in shadow mode, is doing MILLIONS of miles of learning and mapping. "8.1" is a misnomer, BTW.....8.1 refers to the software version across both hardware suites. Maybe you are meaning to dump all over AP2 or HW2?

Again....traffic aware cruise control is cool. so is lane-centering....or the "nanny rumble" your steering wheel might give if you leave a lane.....but AP1 on the highway is something that hasn't really been matched yet.

To lose a hardware partner and make a go of it on your own, have the SECOND hardware suite at almost-parity with the first only 6 months later....while only using 2 of 8 cameras??? Come on...that's impressive.


Anyway..... I'll leave you with this, and remind you that these results are from AP1/HW1, you know the one currently in consumers' hands and receiving OTA updates.

I'd love to see you spin this as less than impressive.

Testing (Semi) Autonomous Cars With Tesla, Cadillac, Hyundai, and Mercedes - Motor Trend

 

[electracity]

I'd love to see you could spin this as less than impressive.

I love to see how non-technical people misrepresent technology to support their vague gut feelings.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I love to see how non-technical people misrepresent technology to support their vague gut feelings.

Lol, yes, because I post my "technological street cred" all over the forums.


This was fun, but I get too many of my posts moved to snippiness.

I posted an article. You told me I wasn't Technical because I came up with something to prove my point.

You're fun at parties, huh?

 

[dsvick]

The S60 is no longer available.

Ahhh, I can't afford to even think about one so I wasn't aware of the date. I can see how you would like more info on the model 3. On the other hand, personally I don't think there is going to be any "oh wow look at that" reveal with some new tech other than what we've already seen. I think what we've seen so far is pretty much what we're getting, except for some details on range, options, and the like I don't see much more info coming out.

 

[N5329K]

FWIW, Model S owners report a fairly high incidence of displays going blank and rebooting, especially when the car is new. Sometimes one display. Sometimes both. Again, by their reports, this is something that improves with time. Just the same, when it happens, all functions (nav, systems, environmentals, state of charge, autopilot, entertainment, etc) become a mystery. They don't stop working. But neither do you know what they are seeing or doing. If that's an issue for you, the Tesla single-screen version of the Blue Screen of Death will be profoundly annoying.
Robin