Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Did Tesla lose focus by making the Model 3 an autonomous car instead of a great EV?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I totally agree. I want "on-ramp to off ramp" autopilot that can drive me on the interstate highway system and divided highways safely. I drive 10 hours to my family quite often and the drive is incredibly dull and easy....something that AP2.0 should be able to handle soon based on what I've seen from 8.1. All that's really needed is the ability to take ramps and to follow navigation.

The problem with on-ramp and off-ramp is more about high definition mapping. It could actually work today in many places because of the amount of data from areas with more AP2 cars that has been gathered and processed into those maps. They will not be able to enable it until the high def maps cover the majority of ramps and of course some kind of validation.
 
Not a "realistic expectation" in a car that is 1/2 of the price of the single other great looking electric car with 2 screens. You cant have everything. You cant have S60 Range, S60 screens and everything else and still have it cost 1/2 as much. Sorry for trying to be realistic. I am sure designers sat in a room and discussed how they would keep the price down and something had to go. I am sure they wanted a spaceship HUD and 3 screens, but they just couldn't manage it and keep costs down while delivering on time. Do you think we are smarter then them? I mean, we all think a HUD or a second screen or instrument cluster is mandatory, but it clearly isn't.
The 3-series is half the price of a 7-series, but it doesn't get rid of any basic driving features. The freakin' Bolt has more interior features than Model 3. You're trying to tell me that a car with a bigger battery that is more expensive by the cell can afford to include buttons and extra screens for about the same price, but Tesla can't? This was not a cost-cutting measure, it was a design choice.

It's realistic to expect a dashboard display. Every single car has one. Tesla can't figure out how to do the same on a $35,000 car without breaking the bank? Sure, the car is half the price, but it's still more expensive than what most people are able to afford. This is not a cheap car, but it's built like one.

There is no excuse for alienating so many potential buyers. If an extra screen costs $1000, raise the price. Don't want to do that? Build it in somewhere else. Charge people for maps. Add an extra cent onto supercharging costs. Charge for 4G. Or just suck it up and eat the $1000. You'll make it back and then some with the margins on options that most people will go for, because again, it's a luxury-priced car. The people who can afford a $35k vehicle can probably afford to throw a few more grand at it in options. And if Tesla will not be profitable on a $35,000 car by adding a $1000 screen? Wow oh boy are they in trouble.


Not Poor, because many didn't think the fat fingered touch screen was going to work at all, much less for typing.
Key words there: didn't think.

I know one screen will not work. The proof is in the Model S and X. Do you think one screen can work after driving around your Model X? I don't see how the information displayed to you on two screens can be consolidated into one smaller screen. There is nothing about the Model 3 that would not require that information to be displayed. It's a car. It does car things like the Model S.


So yes. I think its unrealistic to expect 100 features in a car priced to have 50 features. I am sorry that the designers didnt keep the features you wanted and got rid of the features you didnt, but hard choices have to be made. My guess is they err on the side of easiest to produce over cost specifically. They also clearly wanted to be a Tesla and not look like every other car.
I think it's realistic to expect 50 features on a car that's half the price of a 100 feature car. No argument there. But I don't think it's unrealistic to expect basic features to be included in those 50. Things that would get tossed on the way down to 50 from 100 would be things like automatic doors, power liftgate, luxury trim, etc. but not the freakin' dashboard! No other car company cuts costs like that because it's ridiculous.

Bottom line: if Tesla can't make a compelling car for $35000, they should not be in the automotive business. As of right now, Model 3 is not compelling, especially not at that price point.
 
Bottom line: if Tesla can't make a compelling car for $35000, they should not be in the automotive business. As of right now, Model 3 is not compelling, especially not at that price point.

Maybe they just do not agree with you on what is compelling. Just like some didn't agree with Steve Jobs that a touch screen was the way to go and stylus and physical keyboard where destined to disappear. Palm and blackberry dominated then. Where are they now? I have faith in Tesla and crew, not concerned at all with those who bolt.. Pun intended.
 
Maybe they just do not agree with you on what is compelling. Just like some didn't agree with Steve Jobs that a touch screen was the way to go and stylus and physical keyboard where destined to disappear. Palm and blackberry dominated then. Where are they now? I have faith in Tesla and crew, not concerned at all with those who bolt.. Pun intended.
Is anybody in here feeling compelled by one screen? Looking for honesty. Or is it more of a "sigh, I guess I'll deal with it because TESLAAAAA" *foams at the mouth*
 
  • Like
Reactions: kablammyman
s anybody in here feeling compelled by one screen? Looking for honesty. Or is it more of a "sigh, I guess I'll deal with it because TESLAAAAA" *foams at the mouth*

I think about 400,000 reservation holders are feeling pretty compelled. If you are right, they will all cancel. If I'm right, they won't. It's now a week known fact that there is no HUD and only one screen. When Tesla releases the Q2 financials, there is a line item there that includes reservation and you can compare that number to Q1 to see roughly how many people agree with you. Some for sure will, but not many. The safety features, the looks, the performance the range are all extremely compelling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sigmo32 and EinSV
I think about 400,000 reservation holders are feeling pretty compelled. If you are right, they will all cancel. If I'm right, they won't. It's now a week known fact that there is no HUD and only one screen. When Tesla releases the Q2 financials, there is a line item there that includes reservation and you can compare that number to Q1 to see roughly how many people agree with you. Some for sure will, but not many. The safety features, the looks, the performance the range are all extremely compelling.
So you're not compelled then, lol.
 
If I actually buy one it will not be because I am compelled by a single center screen on a stick, it will be because I have convinced myself that I won't hate it after awhile.
This is honestly hilarious and I feel your pain. I was hoping for something in my price range that would hit all the right notes or at least the notes that matter, but I guess we'll have to go back to compromising and "looking on the bright side". Bummer that there are no affordable EVs that aren't weird or impractical. I was willing to overlook the duck face because it's what's on the inside that counts... right? But now the inside is no better than the outside. So frustrating. I've been waiting so long for the Model 3 and it just hurts that the best chance at an exciting, compelling, affordable EV is... this.

But despite all my whining and complaining, I've still got that reservation in place and will continue to look to the bright side. I've gone from definitely buying to 50/50 right now. I spent the last couple months searching to rent a house with a garage to charge my new Tesla. After this news, I ended up grabbing another apartment yesterday without a means to charge. I just don't care enough because I'm not compelled. If the 3 is awesome and I buy one, I'll cross that charging bridge when it comes. I'm not going to invest when there's nothing worth investing in at this point.
 
I think about 400,000 reservation holders are feeling pretty compelled. If you are right, they will all cancel. If I'm right, they won't. It's now a week known fact that there is no HUD and only one screen. When Tesla releases the Q2 financials, there is a line item there that includes reservation and you can compare that number to Q1 to see roughly how many people agree with you. Some for sure will, but not many. The safety features, the looks, the performance the range are all extremely compelling.
There's still a lot of enthusiasm for the Model 3, so no, of course all 400,000 or so reservation holders won't cancel. But as you say, some will, and the drip...drip...drip of information escaping the Tesla faucet isn't helping to stop that leak. Just the opposite. It's probably not accidental that some Model 3 reservation holders have been nudged to buy the Model S which is, and has been from the very beginning, a compelling car to look at and drive. Not a fine electric car. A fine car that happens to be electric.
There's a difference.
The Model 3 is still (to my eyes) a beautiful design from the outside. But the drip...drip...drip from the faucet has called into question (again, to me) whether it will be the competitor to the BMW 3 Series Tesla initially promised - a fine car that happens to be electric- or just a better-looking, less weird but also less utilitarian Bolt. The Ultimate (Electric) Driving Machine? Or just an electric taxi?
Absent a real reveal, we'll have to wait until they hit the streets to find out.
Robin
 
It's more about what sort of car the designers had in mind- a pod that moves you from A to B without requiring your attention or even your participation - or one that just moves you. The Model S is the latter. The Model 3? I'm not sure. I'm looking forward to finding out.
Robin
 
At 1:00 into this video they start to discus the one center screen and the driver says "This is an engineering prototype... we don't have time, it's only a year and a half, we've gotta go with this." This is before they knew that they would have ~400,000 reservations or accelerate the production schedule.

 
  • Informative
Reactions: kablammyman
Key words there: didn't think.

I know one screen will not work. The proof is in the Model S and X. Do you think one screen can work after driving around your Model X? I don't see how the information displayed to you on two screens can be consolidated into one smaller screen. There is nothing about the Model 3 that would not require that information to be displayed. It's a car. It does car things like the Model S.
Well the Model S/X screen is not landscape, the screen position is very different, and the UI is not designed for single screen operation. It's going to be a poor indicator of how things work in the Model 3.

None of us have the seat time to really tell how it works out. Elon is banking that most people won't car about it being single screen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Petra
Is anybody in here feeling compelled by one screen? Looking for honesty. Or is it more of a "sigh, I guess I'll deal with it because TESLAAAAA" *foams at the mouth*

I think it's a stupid decision that Tesla made and most people know it. They say they'll get used to it. Maybe they will maybe they won't (I hope we/they do). But this isn't about cost. It was a conscious choice they made about a car that would be sold as fully autonomous or be "activated" in the near future with full autonomy. But what they forgot about, I think, is the consumer. A speedometer right in front of you isn't a luxury feature. A speedometer isn't an archaic feature. If Tesla is about what's better - then having a new kind of HUD is next gen and no one would be complaining. At this point I'd be happy with a speedometer and that it shows Autopilot right in front of you, where it should be. They said it would be the best $35k car. Period. Do you hear that Audi A3 E-Tron? Now Elon is referring to it as "simpler". Whether this is to tamp down excitement because he realized - oh crap - I said its controls were like a spaceship. Or, it's to drive S sales. Either way, a full year in, I think we need to see a configurator and a concrete timeline. That, at the very least, is what we deserve.
 
  • Like
Reactions: frozenpenguin
(because I think fully autonomous driving is a far more difficult challenge than most people give it credit for)
As far as I can tell you can thank Musk for setting consumer expectations for when to expect full autonomous (100 % driverless) capability. He said it would be available next year. He would be wrong of course because he himself underestimated the challenge.
 
Since EV-1 days, there's been vigorous disagreement about what an electric car should look like, cost and how it should perform. For decades, the "pod people" who argued for EV's for the masses, at lowest possible price and damn the performance, were on top. Cars were a necessary evil, so who cared if they looked like earth shoes? That side of the aisle left behind a string of hideous cars and bankrupt companies. Why? Because good electric cars are expensive to build and most people don't want to fork out money for four-wheeled earth shoes (though some still would).
The founders of Tesla (one of them a life-long gearhead) changed all of that by designing a compelling (there's that word again) car that was fast, beautiful and expensive, not cheap. They reasoned that you had to stop looking at EV's as glorified golf carts, forget about "for the masses" and start selling fine machines at a high price. The high price would fund a Gen 2 design that would go after luxury car manufacturers.
Well, job done.
Gen 2 was always meant to fund the downmarket, more mainstream EV; the Model 3.
Job done there, too.
But I do wonder whether the pod people really left the scene (I figured they just all went to work for Google). This disgreement over whether the promise of the Model 3 has been abandoned in the name of creating an electric taxi suggests that some of them may work at Tesla, too.
Robin
 
One thing I considered from watching the video Sonny posted above (again) is that compared to many cars, that dash is LOW. I order to get the gauges where you could see them there would have to be a pretty big "hump" in the dash unless you really wanted to be looking down through the steering wheel at an awkward angle.

The upper right portion of the screen is far more in the driver's LOS.
 
Back to the original topic of the thread..

Autonomous pods are the future, people won't own cars, there will be no reason and the expense will be to high for must peopled needs. The reason cars need to look cool today is because car companies need people to want to own them. In the future it will be more about the comfort and toys inside to keep people entertained while they travel. There will be sizes and shapes for all needs and even those that attach to drones.

I think that future is closer then most think. I think in as early as 10 years, people will not need to buy a car, they will be able to summon one of my Tesla's for cheaper. The cost will be so cheap for them that a car payment and gas and insurance will cost more then there commuting needs. They will be able to summon cars, trucks, Vans all the way up to a semi if needed.

Autonomous cars powered by the sun will remove the need for most people to own a car so that will lead to cars that are more pod like and more modular. Cars will be able to join together in platoons at high speed and board hyperloops that travel through tunnels.

You will still want them to be aerodynamic for efficiency, maybe some kind of deployable faring for the lead pod and caboose.

I don't think tunnels will be necessary because traffic will be minimal with pods working together, in fact many places will require autonomous pods and you won't ba allowed to drive during certain times in certain places.

I know most people will recoil at thought of this but kids these days won't know any difference. The main driver besides cost, will be safety and then convenience.