Did Tesla lose focus by making the Model 3 an autonomous car instead of a great EV?

[ModelNforNerd]

You can say there is no value to LA to NY, but it will get a lot of press and sell a lot of cars.

My main FSD test case is a trip from MA to VA, with roughly 5 miles of 620 on "surface" streets. I'd be perfectly fine with what they've demonstrated so far.

 

[Skotty]

I can't believe how many people seem to want a HUD. Do you folks not wear sunglasses when you drive during the day? A HUD would be completely useless during the daytime (well, unless you use cheapo non-polarizing sunglasses)..

I might not be the norm, but I almost never wear sunglasses. Perhaps my eyes work differently, but I find sunglasses to be mostly pointless. Really just for fashion, if the mood hits me right.

 

[Skotty]

All I am saying is that there is a lot of dev and testing going on that they are not making public. Enough to have Elon saying that he considers full autonomy solved. By which I believe he means that all they are waiting for is enough data to solve all the corner cases

There will never be enough data to solve all of the corner cases. The number of corner cases is infinite.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I might not be the norm, but I almost never wear sunglasses. Perhaps my eyes work differently, but I find sunglasses to be mostly pointless. Really just for fashion, if the mood hits me right.

Maybe your eyes are different, but anywhere there's snow cover and bright sun around here, sunglasses are a necessity.

 

[somnambule]

I can't believe someone at TMC doesn't follow ICE car news. Do you folks not Google simple questions before you post?

Head's up! Ford's Lincoln unit improves head-up displays

HUD w/ polarized lenses was figured out a while ago by Texas Instruments...and, look here, Lincoln is using that very technology.

Thanks for pointing that out. I did wonder about that when I saw that Lincoln commercial with the driver wearing sunglasses. So they were making a specific point! Good for Lincoln. But I wonder how much better it is though. The article simply says "to make projected light more visible"... is "more visible" good enough? I guess we'll have to see in real life. And keep in mind the Continental is Lincoln's top-of-the-line sedan. Should we expect the same tech in the entry-level Tesla?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Should we expect the same tech in the entry-level Tesla?

No, because Elon already said we're not getting it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Audi A4 has HUD. A4 is Audi's "Model 3" according to Elon. It also has a Model S like graphical dash too...

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Audi A4 has HUD. A4 is Audi's "Model 3" according to Elon. It also has a Model S like graphical dash too...

Elon may have missed the A3, then.....

 

[eisbock]

dang...

everyone was thinking this:

When the reality is this:

It's actually a little closer to this:

 

[somnambule]

Audi A4 has HUD. A4 is Audi's "Model 3" according to Elon. It also has a Model S like graphical dash too...

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Just because the A4 (or 3 or C or IS or ATS) has something, doesn't mean the Model 3 will have it. There are a lot of things in the A7 that you can't get on a Model S (coincidentally, including HUD). People will have to decide what's important for them: are the attributes they get with the Model 3 (and can't get anywhere else for now) good enough to give up a few things they can get elsewhere? Same as the decision people make with the S.

What the A4 comparison gives you is a price range. If the Model 3 had everything you can get on an A4, the Model 3 would be more expensive (that battery isn't free). Instead, Tesla gives you the option to get a Model 3 at the same price range but you have to give up a few things. In return, Tesla offers you some very compelling aspects that are (at least for now) unique to them.

 

[eisbock]

People who are so upset about the lack of a HUD/Center cluster really should cancel their reservations as quickly as possible, so that rest of us who actually have realistic expectations can get their cars. It aint easy making a 35k electric car that is incredibly sexy and having over 200 mile range. Tesla will sell ever car they make for the next 10 years even if you decide to go to a competitor. You cant make everyone happy, its impossible.

You don't think a center instrument cluster is a "realistic expectation"? At this point, we just want features that make the car functional. It's not unrealistic to expect that.

The only thing I would say to the people whining that they do not have a HUD/Center cluster, drive the car before you quit it. I remember people saying the iPhone was stupid because it didn't have a physical keyboard or a stylus. I know, I was one of them. I trust that Musk knows what he is doing more then anyone one this forum. Until Tesla actually fails, I am going to give Tesla a chance.

Poor analogy. Apple took the keyboard and offered an arguably better alternative.

Tesla took the instrument cluster and replaced it with... nothing?

 

[eisbock]

Some people have a very different definition of a "driver's car" than I do

My version:
-nimble handling and quick, predictable weight transfer
-strong, easily modulated brakes
-quick, accurate steering with good feedback
-a broad, robust powerband that quickens the pulse when you nail it
-good grip but progessive in its nature

Other version:
-steering wheel gauges on a car that has no tach, has no temp gauge, and uses no gas

Which is more a "driver's car" to you?

(FYI if completely my choice, I'd have a HUD 1st or a Model S layout 2nd, but I'm fine with neither, I'm not fine without the "my version" list).

Right, but the Model 3 is supposed to be a taxi, as Elon pointed out. You will experience none of those exhilarating experiences while riding in a taxi. Model 3 is not a "driver's car".

So basically we get neither.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Right, but the Model 3 is supposed to be a taxi, as Elon pointed out. You will experience none of those exhilarating experiences while riding in a taxi. Model 3 is not a "driver's car".

So basically we get neither.

Then why the F will they even bother with a P model?

You're not just jumping to conclusions, you're gettting launched by a trebuchet over the castle wall!

A couple of tweets and the sky is falling- ridiculous. Wait for the damn car to actually come out!

 

[Bladerskb]

Exactly. Elon's claims are 1) end-to-end, 2) with charging, and 3) "without the need of a single touch". What part of these claims you don't understand? Can you understand that? Charging? Not a single touch? Full autonomy? Re-read it. Slowly. Carefully. Now read it again one more time for good measure.

Obviously gasoline cars won't be doing this; I'd like to see a gasoline car pump its own gas.

They can't collect useful data at night? Maybe they just don't have the ability to capture & analyze that data; obviously, there is data at night that is unique for the sensors.

2 miles of surface street: sure. Obviously, we all want to see more than that, but I'll take self-charging and "not a single touch".

A waste of time? You have no idea of the public's perception of self-driving if you think demonstrations are still a waste of time in 2017.



I can't believe someone at TMC doesn't follow ICE car news. Do you folks not Google simple questions before you post?

Head's up! Ford's Lincoln unit improves head-up displays

HUD w/ polarized lenses was figured out a while ago by Texas Instruments...and, look here, Lincoln is using that very technology.

So now you have finally admitted that its just a pr publicity stunt?

thank you.

however i don't understand full autonomy seeing there's only 2 mile of surface street.
plus there will be touch...unless it will be robot back up drivers in the cars?

 

[eisbock]

Then why the F will they even bother with a P model?

I'm wondering this myself. Elon apparently wants autonomous driving more than sustainable EV transport (as outlined in their mission statement).

I honestly have no clue why they're spending so much time and money on making their cars fun to drive.

Or maybe Elon wants a fun driving experience for Model S/X, and an autonomous experience for Model 3.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Or maybe Elon wants a fun driving experience for Model S/X, and an autonomous experience for Model 3.

I'd be cool with a little of both. I sometimes have to drive ~140 miles round trip to see a specialist at the VA....I'd use Autonomous for that.

But if the wife and I want to go up into the mountains on the weekend, I want to tear around on some windy roads. I'm hoping we get both......

 

[stopcrazypp]

You know what none of those companies have. Cars in consumers hands with the same hardware they are testing. Even AP1 could do a large amount of what you are showing as proof that Tesla doesnt have anything.

You can say there is no value to LA to NY, but it will get a lot of press and sell a lot of cars.

All I am saying is that there is a lot of dev and testing going on that they are not making public. Enough to have Elon saying that he considers full autonomy solved. By which I believe he means that all they are waiting for is enough data to solve all the corner cases. When compared to Google, which by law has to make it public because they are testing in CA. You can also tell when Google or any of those other companies are testing, because they cars look like they came out of a Madmax movie with all the crap bolted to them. Any Model X you see outside of CA could be testing level 3-4 autonomous driving.

Bingo. That's the major difference. It's like for example some companies driving prototypes at a race track to get a track record. It's far less relevant than if the company drove a production model (even if they had to change the tires and do a bit of prep work), that's why the prototype drives don't have their times posted.

 

[eisbock]

I'd be cool with a little of both. I sometimes have to drive ~140 miles round trip to see a specialist at the VA....I'd use Autonomous for that.

But if the wife and I want to go up into the mountains on the weekend, I want to tear around on some windy roads. I'm hoping we get both......

Exactly. I want to choose between both driving experiences in my car. Long trips are boring as hell, so I'll initiate boring mode so I can do something more exciting. Tooling around town is significantly less boring, especially when you have a sporty car. I don't want to turn on boring mode for that. It doesn't make sense to only design the car around the boring driving experience that doesn't even exist yet...

 

[SouthFLGuy]

Maybe the Jaguar I-Pace will cost somewhere between a 3 and an S. It's looking really good.

Jaguar I-Pace Production Prototype Spotted Looking Great!

 

[LectrikPower]

Exactly. I want to choose between both driving experiences in my car. Long trips are boring as hell, so I'll initiate boring mode so I can do something more exciting. Tooling around town is significantly less boring, especially when you have a sporty car. I don't want to turn on boring mode for that. It doesn't make sense to only design the car around the boring driving experience that doesn't even exist yet...

I agree. I don't want to rush to judgment but I want a drivers car that can drive autonomously. Elon's "taxi" talk and single screen do not bode well IMO. I'm going to wait till the final reveal though and some test drive reports.

Until then I am going to be biting my fingernails, looking out the front window like a worried parent waiting for a late kid to come home, lol. Jk.