Disappointed with the D unveiling

[Canuck]

I respectfully - and jestfully - think that the likes of green1 and Canuck are acting like 12 year-olds in that they see only one way Tesla could be, without the complexities of adult solutions.
...
To suggest Tesla could do no better and the likes of breser just need to get over the jealousy is, well, really naive. In reality, there is likely a lot of stuff Tesla could - and perhaps should - take home from feedback like this and improve. And there's lots the community can learn and help each other with going forwards. At the very least, it is a fair discussion.
...
p.s. Personally I find the lack of empathy in parts of this community a turn-off and a disappointment.

I never called anyone a 12 year old. You need re-read my posts if you think that is the case but I do see the wink so perhaps it's just a jab at me. Still, I think it's uncalled for. We really need to discuss this topic without any ad hominem attacks at all.

To suggest I have no empathy is not true at all. I have a 6 month old car. I do feel for those people who just missed the sensors, or recently had P+ cars delivered. But to me, this is all part of life. As I said in another thread, I live by the creed my grandfather said to me as child (after he lived through the great depression): "I cried when I had no shoes, until I met a man with no feet."

While I do have empathy, it is extremely limited and if that's "a turn-off and a disappointment" then so be it. I reserve my empathy for real issues in life, such as a child with cancer. That's where my empathy goes into high gear. My empathy barely breaks the surface for missing out on the D or sensors.

All high tech companies get criticized for customer service issues. It has happened to Apple, Google, Amazon and the list goes on and on. There's just no way you can please everyone. I agree its good to discuss how things can be done better (without attacking each other) but there's a reason why Tesla is being run by those who run it and not the posters here. They will make mistakes and hopefully they will learn from those who posts here, but in reality they have more important things to be concerned with.

I have made a conscious choice to live with an attitude of gratitude rather than resentment.

Think about that, next time you fight the very human urge to caricatyrize your discussion opponent into a primitively emotional adolescent.

I suggest you take your own advice since I never did that to you, but you did do that to me.

 

[bonnie]

Moderator note: I want to thank those of you who have managed to give calm, mature responses (even when responding to someone clearly trying to escalate the discussion). You make the moderators' job easier and are appreciated.

Warning for the entire thread ... lots of small jabs going on here, some are starting to escalate. Please try to remember you are adults and this isn't a contest. If you can't discuss this topic without getting snippy, well ... we have a thread you will likely be visiting soon.

 

[Dukecat]

To simplify a customer interaction as large as a car purchase into "you're jealous, get over it", is to ignore not only a range of human emotion, but also a range of market realities. In this case, it also ignores the fact that Tesla changed breser's delivery date without informing him of the implications of doing so. Had breser gotten what he ordered, when he ordered, he would have gotten the upgrades.

There is a reason why companies have price protection, generous returns policies and even retroactive upgrade policies at times - not just because people are jealous, but because they are human and the interaction of the sale is precious - and precarious. There is also a reason why the topic of great corporate communications is a science of its own. There is a lot a company can do to navigate the business environment to the benefit of all involved. There is also a lot they can fail at.

To suggest Tesla could do no better and the likes of breser just need to get over the jealousy is, well, really naive. In reality, there is likely a lot of stuff Tesla could - and perhaps should - take home from feedback like this and improve. And there's lots the community can learn and help each other with going forwards. At the very least, it is a fair discussion.

A snippet from a recent post, the points within which, I think are very good ones.

Well written, AnxietyRanger.

 

[KJD]

Tesla has said right from the very beginning that the car would be constantly improved and upgraded. They would NOT wait for a model year to make improvements.

This is the strength of the company and not a weakness. This it what makes them better than a traditional car company.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The moderator comment respected. The following is my wish to clarify.

I never called anyone a 12 year old. You need re-read my posts if you think that is the case but I do see the wink so perhaps it's just a jab at me. Still, I think it's uncalled for. We really need to discuss this topic without any ad hominem attacks at all.

To clarify, the message I objected to was this:

Originally Posted by green1
This is jealousy at it's worst. There's no upside to person A from stopping person B from getting the extra, and yet that's exactly what everyone is advocating for. Back to my toddler example, people would rather they get one cookie and the other person get none, than that they get 2 cookies and the other person gets 3, even though both people are better off in the second example.
Enjoy your 2 cookies, and don't be upset that someone else has 3, the alternative is that both of you have none."

...

An ad hominem attack is a form of criticism directed at something about the person one is criticizing rather than something independent of that person. Green1 gave you an independent argument based on his "cookie" example to make his point. He never mentioned anything about you personally at all. In fact, he made a valid argument that applies to the discussion of this thread and one that was in no way an ad hominem attack.

I objected to the notion that the complaints were reduced to mere jealousy - even "jealousy at it's worst" - not to mention to discussion of toddlers and cookies. This, in connection with the 12 year-old debate by some others (with derogatory GIFs in tow), is what I responded to and addressed people whom I saw as supporting such argumentation. So, just to explain.

To suggest I have no empathy is not true at all. I have a 6 month old car. I do feel for those people who just missed the sensors, or recently had P+ cars delivered. But to me, this is all part of life. As I said in another thread, I live by the creed my grandfather said to me as child (after he lived through the great depression): "I cried when I had no shoes, until I met a man with no feet."

Fallacy of relative privation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While I do have empathy, it is extremely limited and if that's "a turn-off and a disappointment" then so be it. I reserve my empathy for real issues in life, such as a child with cancer. That's where my empathy goes into high gear. My empathy barely brakes the surface for missing out on the D or sensors.

This is a car forum. We discuss the ups and downs of EV ownership, Tesla ownership. We celebrate the enjoyment of the product, even though said enjoyment is trivial compared to the birth of a child, world peace efforts or other greater things in life. Equally, discussing the disappointments should be fair game without unrelated comparisons to bigger things in life, because basically those bigger things are not a topic of this forum. We don't blame a guy for gushing over their EV, I hope we don't blame them for feeling slighted either when that happens. Being disappointed, sharing such and promoting fixes and change is a part of life too.

All high tech companies get criticized for customer service issues. It has happened to Apple, Google, Amazon and the list goes on and on. There's just no way you can please everyone. I agree its good to discuss how things can be done better (without attacking each other) but there's a reason why Tesla is being run by those who run it and not the posters here. They will make mistakes and hopefully they will learn from those who posts here, but in reality they have more important things to be concerned with.

Of course they do - but some do it better than others. Feedback matters. Hopefully the management at Tesla are a great authority on how to run the business, but we as their customers are the best authority on how we experience the customer experience they offer us. I can't think of anything more important for us to be concerned with, within the scope of a site like this. We all have more important things to be concerned with, but we are here to talk Tesla.

I have made a conscious choice to live with an attitude of gratitude rather than resentment.

Nothing wrong with that. I certainly wouldn't ask you to change your opinion on how you are (or are not) enjoying your Tesla, ever.

However, hopefully any of our personal views aren't getting too much in the way of empathy - because that usually requires stepping away from personal beliefs and onto the shoes of the others. Not all will find the same things important as one does and, thus, their reactions will differ. If one of us doesn't find something in particular important (but others do), we may make the mistake of just imposing our view on others, instead of really seeing their point of view. It's the "I don't find this important, why should you" problem.

I suggest you take your own advice since I never did that to you, but you did do that to me.

I don't think you are acting like a 12 year-old, but I do think - and did joke to that effect - that the implied suggestion that there is no other way Tesla could have done this, to be a train of thought that an adolescent "black or white" mind might have. But to stress, it was made in jest and in a camaraderie spirit.

- - - Updated - - -

Tesla has said right from the very beginning that the car would be constantly improved and upgraded. They would NOT wait for a model year to make improvements.

This is the strength of the company and not a weakness. This it what makes them better than a traditional car company.

I respect your opinion, but I think it can be both their strength and their weakness - and they can improve things the make it less of a weakness than perhaps they have done so far.

 

[Tedkidd]

I read a suggestion somewhere that seemed a nice solution: Schedule hardware upgrade announcements every 4 months. (Feb, June, Oct)

Seemed a really good solution for everyone. It lets buyers understand announcement timing when making ordering plans, and thereby experience less remorse or feeling of being blindsided should the announcement be about a feature they find particularly appealing.

It also allows Tesla to continue their process of continuous improvement, and regular PR opportunity.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

This thread makes me sad. :-(

Driving my Tesla makes me happy.

I hope driving yours does as much as it does for me.

It is the future. We are all part of the making of history here.

There will be a few bumps in the road, and they are worth noting and passing on to Tesla to smooth over for the future. But try not to get so focused on the potholes that you miss out on the drive.

 

[Beavis]

Back in the old days (all of a little over 2 years ago), we could tell that the production sequence had nothing to do with order sequence. Tesla batched production to maximize efficiency. We could also tell by tracking deliveries against order sequences and configurations, that cars went into production attached to a specific customer. A particular configuration coming off the line didn't necessarily go to the next person in line with that configuration. I personally know this because as I waited for my car, people behind me in line with the exact same configuration received their cars months before I did. The production sequence was a black box that nobody seemed to understand. I assume it is the same today but I haven't been paying much attention since I received my car.

My point is this...Tesla could have announced Autopilot (or folding mirrors, parking sensors, +, etc...) early and given customers the option of cancelling or changing their orders but then Tesla would have to change the production sequence. This option would have to be incredibly disruptive and inefficient.

 

[Canuck]

I don't think you are acting like a 12 year-old, but I do think - and did joke to that effect - that the implied suggestion that there is no other way Tesla could have done this, to be a train of thought that an adolescent "black or white" mind might have. But to stress, it was made in jest and in a camaraderie spirit.

I don't think you read my posts. This is my first post in this thread:

What solution do you propose to this dilemma? I'm not criticizing you, since you do make a valid point, I'm just wondering how it can be avoided? Tesla does "build an awesome car, but also that their purchase experience is vastly superior to anything else you can get" (at least in my experience) but I also feel some disappointment with my car that is only 6 months old and doesn't have AWD which I would definitely have bought. But I feel the same disappointment as I do with computers, TV's, and other electronics that constantly get better for the same or even less money. Sure, this is a much larger purchase, but Tesla is building cars how they should be built, like electronic gadgets, and as such we have to expect this. I am also 6 months closer to the grave and I'll never get the past 6 months back. I had a great summer with my car but even if rolled off the line last week, this is all part of life. No use sweating the small stuff. That's how I look at it at least.

As you will note, I specifically sparked the discussion about how to do it better.

I also never suggested that anyone was acting like a child. I commented on the "cookie" example only to state that it was not an ad hominem attack. In fact, I specifically said it may be considered inappropriate, just not ad hominem.

With regard to Fallacy of relative privation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - just because some professor gives it an intellectual sounding title and explanation does not mean that living your life by referring to the bigger picture is actually a fallacy. I'm really glad my grandfather used "fallacy of relative privation" on me -- and I often use it on my kids. Of course, this is a car forum but we are also all "atoms hurling in space" as that intellectual Sara Silverman said recently in her Emmy acceptance speech -- just trying to make sense of it all. Sometimes for some of us it helps to put things in perspective. In fact, for some of us, it makes life with our cars even better when we do. You and others who call this attitude a "fallacy" are certainly entitled to your opinions, and can just roll your eyes at us, but our comments belong here as much as people with your perspective do -- which by the way, I welcome. You are articulate and make good points. I may disagree with you on some of them but I respect your opinion and I enjoy debating these issues with you. I think we both agree that leaving references to acting like children out of the discussion is important to keeping things civil and enjoyable.

 

[Jaff]

I am not at all sure this would work...sales leading up to the announcement dates would slump as potential buyers would be waiting for "the announcement of the next big thing"...this would affect production in a negative way as well...it would create production "peaks and valleys" which in turn vastly decreases the overall production efficiencies...not a workable solution imo...

I read a suggestion somewhere that seemed a nice solution: Schedule hardware upgrade announcements every 4 months. (Feb, June, Oct)

Seemed a really good solution for everyone. It lets buyers understand announcement timing when making ordering plans, and thereby experience less remorse or feeling of being blindsided should the announcement be about a feature they find particularly appealing.

It also allows Tesla to continue their process of continuous improvement, and regular PR opportunity.

 

[CarlK]

I'm tired to even read these posts anymore. All I want to say is you got a P85+ and you're not happy?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I don't think you read my posts. This is my first post in this thread:

That is a perfectly fair post. As I explained, my objection came in the context of the posts by green1 and some others, and your message of support for that argumentation (e.g. posts on this page and a few others: Disappointed with the D unveiling - Page 20). Perhaps that part of the debate gave the wrong impression of your overall opinion - and if it did, then my objection towards your contribution in particular is not warranted.

So, this just to give background to what I was responding to and why. I still think the conversation at the time took a very nasty turn towards the unempathetic in breser's case, where a few kind words and constructive suggestions would have been more in place. As for your part, Canuck, I respect your later messages and don't consider yourself a part of that group of people. Thank you for taking the time to discuss it more.

As you will note, I specifically sparked the discussion about how to do it better.

That is good. My objection at the time was to supporting the line of debate green1 was leading.

I also never suggested that anyone was acting like a child. I commented on the "cookie" example only to state that it was not an ad hominem attack. In fact, I specifically said it may be considered inappropriate, just not ad hominem.

Fair enough - and I agree debating what is ad hominem can certainly be an interesting theoretical exercise. I haven't really formed an opinion in that particular case and I'll spare the thread of it anyway. For me, it was more about the fact that I felt those feeling slighted deserved more from us than "deal with it" and that I think the community here would benefit from being able to offer more support than that. Such a line goes uncomfortably fast into the fanboy territory on many brand-specific forums and, thus, I personally would like to see both the ups and downs of Tesla ownership discussed equally.

With regard to Fallacy of relative privation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - just because some professor gives it an intellectual sounding title and explanation does not mean that living your life by referring to the bigger picture is actually a fallacy.

Of course. We can certainly debate that as much as we can what is an ad hominem. There can be many valid opinions, too. I merely linked to it as a shorthand on my own opinion. I think unrelated comparisons are, well, unrelated and best kept that way. It was not meant as an appeal to authority, which by the way, I would agree is a fallacy too. It is just my opinion that even though there are bigger things in life, that is mostly not relevant in a topic-specific forum and detrimental to our ability to discuss such specific topics. We could never discuss something like stamp collecting on a stamp collecting forum if everything had to be filtered through "what really matters".

I'm really glad my grandfather used "fallacy of relative privation" on me -- and I often use it on my kids. Of course, this is a car forum but we are also all "atoms hurling in space" as that intellectual Sara Silverman said recently in her Emmy acceptance speech -- just trying to make sense of it all. Sometimes for some of us it helps to put things in perspective. In fact, for some of us, it makes life with our cars even better when we do. You and others who call this attitude a "fallacy" are certainly entitled to your opinions, and can just roll your eyes at us, but our comments belong here as much as people with your perspective do -- which by the way, I welcome. You are articulate and make good points. I may disagree with you on some of them but I respect your opinion and I enjoy debating these issues with you. I think we both agree that leaving references to acting like children out of the discussion is important to keeping things civil and enjoyable.

I'm not rolling any eyes on you, just to be clear on that. I see very well where you are coming from, I think, on that particular angle. As I said, nothing wrong with your point of view, quite the contrary. The problem is, I don't think it is as simple as that even for you. We are all subjective creatures. And even though you say you want to live a life of gratitude, there will still quite likely be issues where in reality you might fail at that. And given your particular circumstance, failing to apply that to something might even be perfectly reasonable. Meaning, based on our subjective experiences, life and situations, we are susceptible to feel differently about the same things. What is easy for you, will be hard on others, and vice-versa. What is reasonable for you, even commendable in you case, might be completely unreasonable given someone elses' circumstance and whatever physical, fiscal and/or emotional baggage they are carrying. Put in other ways, what is important to you, will not be important to others - and this greatly affects your two abilities in some particular matter.

This doesn't mean everything someone feels is reasonable. As irrational creatures, lots of out feelings are certainly illogical and unreasonable. They are subjective. But that also means, it is very hard for others to know what our particular point of view is, how easy or hard it might be to change it, and indeed what would be reasonable in our case. This doesn't mean there is no merit in explaining our life experiences to others or offering guidance, but wording and expectations of such would in my opinion be best tempered with understanding that any such guidance is highly subjective and might not be relevant or reasonable to the person it is offered to.

In short, just because something like "forget about your disappointment and be grateful you have a great car" might work for someone in particular, it may absolutely suck as advice to someone else.

In a few early posts of mine in this thread I offered two suggestions to cope with such a situation: permission to swap car early and a self-imposed information blackout after ordering the car (or even later). I offered them because I know they have been helpful to some people, but with full knowledge - and full disclaimers in tow - that they will not be the right decisions for some others. I'm not asking for anything more from anyone else. Definitely offer your experience and opinion, just keep in mind it is subjective and may not be the right opinion for the recipient.

Also, it doesn't hurt to have a little heart and offer empathy towards the person who is feeling bad. The last thing one needs in that case is being told they are acting like 12 year-old (as you and I agree) and should just get over it. I can't see what good that does to the discussion or the community. I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with those slighted feelings (because not all will feel the same due to their subjective differences), but I do think some crossed the line into a bit of attacks and that was unfortunate.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm tired to even read these posts anymore. All I want to say is you got a P85+ and you're not happy?

I guess the most vocal people in this thread don't even have a P85+, so the relevance of that question seems limited. I guess the main point here was, how Tesla handled the silent upgrade of standard equipment to, basically, a self-driving car and how that affected the purchase experience of those left out in general, and in particular one person (breser) whose delivery was pushed forward by Tesla, causing him to miss out on what he otherwise would have gotten as per original schedule. Certainly some, in other threads, have been disappointed about obsoleting the P85+, but that's probably a bit of different type of question.

As for me, personally, I'm very happy with my P85. What I really want is the Model X and the Falcon Wings that will make my life miserable, but I want that sweet pain. The P85 is there because once I realized I can never drive ICE again, I was sitting too much on the bus instead. There was no way I would wait for an unknown number of months for that, so I bought a quick dealer-specced lot car (Tesla is sold through dealers here). But it is easier to not care with a stop-gap, than it would be had I planned to keep the Model S for a decade and put in a full range of emotion into its acquisition, only to get a relative let-down at the end.

 

[Thora]

For me, it was more about the fact that I felt those feeling slighted deserved more from us than "deal with it" and that I think the community here would benefit from being able to offer more support than that.

This doesn't mean everything someone feels is reasonable. As irrational creatures, lots of out feelings are certainly illogical and unreasonable.

In short, just because something like "forget about your disappointment and be grateful you have a great car" might work for someone in particular, it may absolutely suck as advice to someone else.

Also, it doesn't hurt to have a little heart and offer empathy towards the person who is feeling bad.

Few Tesla buyers were unlucky in a sense that they missed on a free upgrade that few lucky buyers got. Perhaps their car is not the one they want to have now, they want a better, newer one. Their luck sucks.

There are different degrees of being unlucky and this particular unlucky seems to be very minor indeed. That is my very subjective assessment of the situation.

How do we expect adults to deal with being unlucky in life? How much and what kind of support is adequate?

Emotions can be managed and controlled, that is what adults are expected to do. Children are not as skilled at managing their emotions, they often work themselves into emotional outbursts, they 'spit the dummy'.

Sometimes empathising with emotions that are out of balance with reality is not the most adequate or the best response. More adequate response might be to point out that emotional response to a minor slight is out of balance and some restraint is required. Imho.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

There are different degrees of being unlucky and this particular unlucky seems to be very minor indeed. That is my very subjective assessment of the situation.

I can respect that as your opinion of course, but as far car purchases go, some people getting a self-driving car for free and others not, that seems like a fairly significant level of unlucky - and a real danger of depreciating the cars of those unlucky ones. I have ordered a lot of cars (too many) from factory from the European manufacturers which have rolling model-year and mid-model-year changes (where you can't know whether they'll make your car before or after because the wait times are so long and unspecific) and I have never, ever witnessed anything this major. The level of change in standard equipment in the vehicle exceeds any case I can remember. Sure, I can recall some small trim changes, an improved sensor here and there, small functionality added somewhere, and lucky and unlucky people around the cut-off dates, but nothing as big as, well, a self-driving car being added in rolling production.

I wonder what level of change you would consider majorly unlucky as far as automotive purchases go.

 

[bonnie]

Here's the part I don't understand ... why are the people who got the car they ordered right up to the moment where the hardware changed (and some received the updated hardware during the changeover) being treated as somehow more unlucky then those that took delivery 4 months ago or 6 months ago or any other time?

That's the sticking point for me. If those folks are taken care of, then why not take care of the group right before them (who are now the unlucky ones who just missed the cutoff point)? And when they're taken care of, then ... right.

It's not lack of empathy here. It's a real issue of 'where is the cutoff and how do you justify that?', coupled with 'how the heck is Tesla supposed to cut in a change and advance technology?'.

 

[simonog]

I have a 3 month old P85+ which I love.

it was a huge purchase for me, and I regret nothing.

If I had had the choice, i would have tried to stretch further and buy a D. While I am sad not to have had the choice, that in no way diminishes how much I love the car I do have. I firer realise that in a year or two there may well be a 500 mile battery pack. That is unlikely to be retro-fittable to any then current car for one simple reason: storing twice the amount of electricity and recharging in the ideal max time of 1 hour (ie current supercharger times) will require a lot of input wiring to be 2 or more times the amp carrying capacity, let alone switchgear etc.

These technology jumps will happen. It's the PC cycle with a very large capital item. That's the world. Let's work out how to enjoy it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here's the part I don't understand ... why are the people who got the car they ordered right up to the moment where the hardware changed (and some received the updated hardware during the changeover) being treated as somehow more unlucky then those that took delivery 4 months ago or 6 months ago or any other time?

For a multitude of reasons, I'd say:

- Equal treatment: Two people order their cars at the same time, one gets more than the other - in this case one gets a self-driving car, the other not. This doesn't apply to the guys who already had their cars for months.
- Realism: We get it that technology changes and gets upgraded over time. Asking for a company to solve this for 4-6 month old customers is different than suggesting improvements in the ramp-up process.
- Time heals: Brand new purchases are far more susceptible to a bad experience than one made many months ago. Especially so with a product you have waited for months on order and then get your experience soured before you even take delivery.

Basically, it can suck to have a 4-6 month old car without major new standard feature, but it definitely sucks more to have a surprise of a -1 to 1 day old car without same.

That's the sticking point for me. If those folks are taken care of, then why not take care of the group right before them (who are now the unlucky ones who just missed the cutoff point)? And when they're taken care of, then ... right.

It's not lack of empathy here. It's a real issue of 'where is the cutoff and how do you justify that?', coupled with 'how the heck is Tesla supposed to cut in a change and advance technology?'.

Not all cut-offs are equal, though. In retail, it is customary to offer price-protection, number of days for returns etc. for these kinds of reasons. Surely a cut-off at some point is needed, but the question is, was this the best way to implement said cut-off. I don't think it necessarily was. At the very least, the likes of breser who were asked about pushing their production forward should have been informed of the implications of doing so, but taking this idea further, Tesla could have thought of many ways to improve the experience by offering more information and perhaps more order cancellation options, discounts or whatever to ease the cut-off process when a change of this magnitude is introduced as a rolling upgrade.

I know there are people saying this would have negatively impacted Tesla's production process, but I'm saying what they did is also negatively affecting their customer's experiences. So, maybe there is some innovation they could do here. Or at the very least make it right for people like breser who had their schedule changed at the request of Tesla and ended up on the wrong side of the swap.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's work out how to enjoy it.

That, obviously, is very good advice.

Ideas on how to cope with ever-changing technology, both for Tesla the company and for us the Tesla owner community, are a great idea.

 

[bonnie]

Has breser even talked to Tesla yet? I know he's posted multiple posts about the situation here, but I haven't seen anything about correspondence with the company.

You say not all cut offs are equal ... but I promise you that whoever just misses whatever new cutoff were manufactured, they'd be extremely vocal and upset and feel it was unfair. "If Tesla could take care of these other people, they should be able to take care of me." You're right, in retail there are a lot of customary actions. But everyone has been quite clear in saying that this is not the same as a retail situation, because it is an expensive car. That works both ways.

If someone lost out and didn't get what they ordered, I'd be contacting Tesla personally on their behalf (and have done that when I have seen stuff I thought needed to be addressed). But that's not what we're talking about.

I looked up some articles on 'early adopter' earlier this evening because of another discussion. I've noticed a lot of people lately (not singling anyone out in particular) have liked to use the term, like the coolness factor ... but don't like the rest of what comes with it: Willingness to deal with technology that isn't fully baked yet, quickly obsolete, overpriced in comparison to what comes shortly after, etc.

But one line in particular struck me: Early adopters are attracted to the new technology and to the exclusivity of the new technology.

Think about that in terms of how upset people have been. There has been no period of exclusivity for some of these Model S buyers. It's not that they're not getting the car they planned on getting for the price they wanted to pay. It's not that the car won't do everything it's supposed to do. The car is just as awesome as it was. But it's no longer the BEST. The exclusivity of having the best is gone.

Everyone is different and no one size fits all. But this one resonated in terms of level of emotion vs. exclusivity time.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Has breser even talked to Tesla yet? I know he's posted multiple posts about the situation here, but I haven't seen anything about correspondence with the company.

Perhaps we will know in time. I agree that Tesla can still make it right for breser, of course. All I know is breser got tired of the response in this thread, so I'm not sure if he is interested in updating us anymore.

You say not all cut offs are equal ... but I promise you that whoever just misses whatever new cutoff were manufactured, they'd be extremely vocal and upset and feel it was unfair. "If Tesla could take care of these other people, they should be able to take care of me." You're right, in retail there are a lot of customary actions. But everyone has been quite clear in saying that this is not the same as a retail situation, because it is an expensive car. That works both ways.

Of course this is not the same as retail. Nobody is suggesting a 30 day returns period for a Tesla Model S. But at the same time, as you said, it is an expensive car with a long wait-time. The sales interaction is even more precious and precarious because of this. I argue a well managed cut-off will produce less people feeling upset and unfair than a badly managed one. I think there was room for improvement here for Tesla in general - and in breser's case in particular.

As I said, the magnitude of the rolling change of standard equipment Tesla introduced here exceeds anything I've seen in German premiums or in Tesla's history within the last decade. Rolling updates bringing new cost-options or small feature changes is one thing, but the level of standard equipment added without a clear facelift or model-year separator seems quite unprecedented. And no, I wouldn't compare a standard carbon-fiber spoiler to a self-driving car.

If someone lost out and didn't get what they ordered, I'd be contacting Tesla personally on their behalf (and have done that when I have seen stuff I thought needed to be addressed). But that's not what we're talking about.

Sure, but breser was apparently moved up to fulfill a Q3 delivery quota and thus missed the change he would have gotten on schedule. I think that alone makes it a bit different from just your average cut-off miss.

Think about that in terms of how upset people have been. There has been no period of exclusivity for some of these Model S buyers. It's not that they're not getting the car they planned on getting for the price they wanted to pay. It's not that the car won't do everything it's supposed to do. The car is just as awesome as it was. But it's no longer the BEST. The exclusivity of having the best is gone.

That may well be one more reason why it sucks to have a car purchase soured even before delivery, compared to having had your car for 4-6 months, but I would say simply the newness of it all is probably even more important. It really isn't an unreasonable desire to want to enjoy that investment to the full on those first days and weeks - and that's why keeping that customer satisfaction up throughout the process is something I think is also in the best interest of the manufacturer. Something like this can easily sour a long and expensive experience.

 

[David_Cary]

A little sad that an impressive "refresh" of the Model S is causing so many negative feelings/threads.

That the sensors installed are not automatically a "self-driving" car. It seems to me the sensor package is inadequate for any kind of autonomous driving. It is good and what is expected on a refresh of an expensive car in 2014. In 2014, it means nothing. Next year - some helpful tools. But it isn't like this sensor package is enough to allow safe driving by itself. I mean aren't we talking about 16 feet to the side and back - that could never be safe to do a lane change on the highway without a person involved. When regulations come out, there will be minimum requirements of sensors and there is zero chance Tesla nailed it.

For anyone following the forums, all these upgrades were expected. If ACC was critically important to someone, the advice here would be to wait to order as we all know it is coming. AWD was also expected with some people feeling it would happen before X, same time as X or just after. Again, if someone really wanted it, the advice would be to wait.

Of course, lots of buyers don't follow the forums. One could argue that spending $100k on something without doing adequate research opens you up to such things and then perhaps the sympathy is diminished.