I have been doing experiments to test the Wh/mi because I am not getting near the EPA range. Of course there are all kinds of excuses as to why it is the driver's fault or the technicality that the manual says that this is to be a constant 60mph. The reality is that even though the rear motor is the same and front motor supposedly coast at constant speed, P+ owners are getting about 25% lower range than RWD cars. Weight shouldn't matter that much at constant highway speed, and width being the same, it must come down to rolling resistance. I drove at 55mph and 60mph for long distances where traffic is going 70-85, and it is flat out dangerous. At 65mph, I'm about 250mi range from 100%.
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Disappointing Range in P3D. Is this normal?
- Thread starter AtlasReardan
- Start date
On my almost 6,000 mile 2-week road trip I averaged 277 Wh/mile. The weather was mild (we took the southern route) but the speed limits were high (80 in Texas). I don't think that's bad at all. In my LEAF (commuting to work and back) I would get around this in the winter and almost 250 Wh/mi in the summer.
Can you recommend a "good tire pressure gauge" (or the one you use)? Also, what are most of you using to fill your tires at home? I never really worried too much about tire pressure other than to use the onboard TPMS displays on my BMW, and swing by the dealer for them to put air in the tire when it was low for me (for free of course).
The BMW dealer is close to where I work, and I didnt have to do this more than once a year or so. Tire pressure is always important, I get it, but now I want to check it myself at home etc, and wonder what gauges and home device people are using to fill their tires. I dont have an air compressor for power tools or anything like that and there are so many choices here.
Ideally It would be some sort of moderately priced air compressor with an accurate gauge in it, that would stop filling when it reached a specified air pressure. I can google such a thing of course but was hoping someone is using something they could recommend.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
I've been using this and it works for me. Set the PSI and it stops at the desired setting. Checked with a digital tire gauge and it matches. Wanted a battery powered one and already had the Ryobi batteries.
Ryobi 18-Volt ONE+ Cordless Dual Function Inflator/Deflator (Tool Only)-P731 - The Home Depot
Most gauges on compressors are not great. Almost any hand gauge is fine. I have like a $2.00 one that is as accurate as a $40.00 one. I cross check with TPMS ( after a short drive ).
Just about any compressor will work too. Pick a price. I often use Amazon to pick which model. But be careful of fake reviews especially on something like this.
Decide if you want 12V portable you keep in the car or 120V one you keep at home with a tank.
Since the car has no spare, having a compressor handy with the car might get you home or to a service station if it’s only a modest leak.
I think every flat tire (half a dozen?) but one in the last 25 years has been a slow leak from a nail or screw, and didn’t go completely flat until I pulled it out.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
I agree - that's why I wanted a battery one. I also didn't want to run down the NSX's car battery using the cigarette lighter. I put it into the trunk on trips with a fully charged battery.
Thanks guys!
I am thinking I would want one for the car AND likely one for home. I have put the tesla specific one from the tesla online shop in my cart like 4 times already but not checked out lol. I have been driving with run flat tires on my BMWs (factory installed) for 6 years or so, and while they sucked at the beginning they got better near the end at least ride quality wise.
Cost was another story... high performance summer run flats were #Q$#@ expensive. Glad to have Pilot Supersports on the tesla, just "nervous" even though I have tesla road assistance AND AAA with premium 200 mile towing.
Only had 2 "flats" over the past 7 years or so, both from hitting potholes, and in both cases I just drove on the run flats to the dealer and paid to get a new tire.
Going to buy "something" just now to figure out what, and whether I want to keep the tesla one in the trunk and get something for home, or not keep anything in the car at all (or buy something other than the tesla one).
Sorry for the OT talk, OP!
Long Story short, EPA range doesn't count if you don't do the speed limit and drive like a pedestrian. It does not recognize the stickiness of the 20s. Its not excuses, people are giving you reasons man. No P3D owner is getting rated range (242 wh/mi) on the 20s, especially if you use the heater at all in cold winter. I estimate the P4S on 20s to be 10% penalty compared to the Primacy on 18s.
RWD cars are mostly sporting the aeros, which are not only lighter with a low rolling resistance tire, but also the hubcaps give a free 10% range bonus on the freeway. There's your 25%.
For my compressor I went with the viair 75P, and it works well enough but the gauge sucks. I like the compact size, lack of other batteries needed and the metal case it comes with.
https://www.amazon.com/VIAIR-Portab...UTF8&qid=1544313945&sr=8-1&keywords=viair+75p
I actually think that the performance M3 with sticky tire getting almost 200 miles in real world is very good already.
EPA mileage standard is NEVER meant to be real world. EV as well as gasoline car will never hit their estimated range and MPG (or MPGe for EV) in real world unless you drive like a grandma. Although no one care about gasoline car EPA range number coz people can fill up gas everywhere.
The EPA standard was developed in the 1970s where the government assume people drive at max of 55 mph. All their test procedures are heavily outdated. If you drive any EV at 55 mph, the car does reach the EPA mileage. There are already test done on this on youtube for Model 3 hitting the 310 mile range at 55 mph.
The outdated EPA procedure is also the reason why no gasoline car has ever reach their advertised MPG number in real world. You would always get less MPG. So this whole EPA issue isn't specific to EV cars.
Yes, it is disappointing that the specs doesn't match real world numbers. But remember that almost ALL specs from almost ALL car manufacturer are exaggerated in some shape or form, 0-60 mph, horsepower number, 1/4 time, MPG, range, u name it. Most of them cannot be achieved in the real world unless it is in the absolute most optimal road condition.
EPA mileage standard is NEVER meant to be real world. EV as well as gasoline car will never hit their estimated range and MPG (or MPGe for EV) in real world unless you drive like a grandma. Although no one care about gasoline car EPA range number coz people can fill up gas everywhere.
The EPA standard was developed in the 1970s where the government assume people drive at max of 55 mph. All their test procedures are heavily outdated. If you drive any EV at 55 mph, the car does reach the EPA mileage. There are already test done on this on youtube for Model 3 hitting the 310 mile range at 55 mph.
The outdated EPA procedure is also the reason why no gasoline car has ever reach their advertised MPG number in real world. You would always get less MPG. So this whole EPA issue isn't specific to EV cars.
Yes, it is disappointing that the specs doesn't match real world numbers. But remember that almost ALL specs from almost ALL car manufacturer are exaggerated in some shape or form, 0-60 mph, horsepower number, 1/4 time, MPG, range, u name it. Most of them cannot be achieved in the real world unless it is in the absolute most optimal road condition.
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All of my gasoline cars have met their EPA ratings even while going above the speed limit. Again, excuses. No matter what, there shouldn't be the drastic difference between the models. Aero covers adding 10% has been shown to be a lie and is nonsensical to anybody that wants to analyze it. All of that stemmed from an engineer saying it is "10% better". You would have to increase the aerodynamics of the entire car by 25% for that to create a 10% range benefit on an EV.
All of that said, I just installed 20mm spacers and am looking for a local owner with 18's willing to see if they will now fit over the rear brakes. The problem is the angle of the barrel, so the further out the 18's can sit, the more room there is for clearance. It may still be impossible, but I'd like to see just how much of a difference the wheels make. I'd like to see what 20's do to bring down efficiency of the RWD.
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I don't think that the wheel weight makes much difference at constant highway speed, and I have a hard time believing that the same width of the different tire makes a 25% total efficiency difference. The Michelins are specifically designed for low rolling resistance for being a more performance oriented tire. I have not seen enough data from P3D- owners to see how their experiences compare, but even D owners are experiencing the high Wh/mi. They don't have the stickier tires. Among the D owners, there seems to be a mixed bag between people getting close to RWD numbers and those that are like us P owners despite having 19's vs 18's.
Ok, your unwilling to look at real evidence and experience, and expect the base model car to get the same as the performance model. Its got 2 motors, sticky tires.
I have actually never heard that statement before, and in just under 40 years of driving, have never owned a car that would meet its EPA rating driven over the speed limit.
I dont doubt that you can drive a car to meet its EPA ratings, but to do so being driven over the speed limit, is very hard for me to wrap my head around.
Fine if you don’t believe. I certainly haven’t had to drive 55 in order to meet fuel economy. As for the motors, the front motor is to disengage when not needed like the rear of the S and X does. That plus a 4% taller gearing on the front motor gave D’s close to 10% greater range than RWD for S/X.
Here are stats from a recent trip. Drove 55 on EAP for 100mi. No heat, started at 100%, under 100ft elevation change, tires 44psi cold, and no noticeable wind but don’t have data to prove that. Driving the 75mph speed limit on the turnpike, that’s a max range of 215 miles. Going 55 was scary.
The car is great for around town, but I just won’t be using it for travel. The P range really is on par with the Mid Range. If I can get a set of wheels/tires to drastically change that, then I’ll get a set for road trips
Here are stats from a recent trip. Drove 55 on EAP for 100mi. No heat, started at 100%, under 100ft elevation change, tires 44psi cold, and no noticeable wind but don’t have data to prove that. Driving the 75mph speed limit on the turnpike, that’s a max range of 215 miles. Going 55 was scary.
The car is great for around town, but I just won’t be using it for travel. The P range really is on par with the Mid Range. If I can get a set of wheels/tires to drastically change that, then I’ll get a set for road trips
I also asked why ICE cars don't get such worse gas mileage at fast highway speeds like the tesla does. Never got a good answer. However... and this is big, is that the energy efficiency of an electric car is still magnitudes over an ICE car with this current disadvantage.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I think you’ll find that 20mm spacers will have a very negative effect on efficiency. Tires have horrible aerodynamics so you don’t want them sticking out past the fenders. Notice that those little ducts on the sides of the front bumper won’t work if they can’t direct the air past the tire.
P3D- and AWD have exactly the same efficiency. I upgraded my AWD to 265/40R18 pilot sport 4s and my efficiency went from 290wh/mi to 340wh/mi. Sticky tires are sticky.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
The efficiency of internal combustion engines goes up a little bit with load. Electric motors are very efficient over a wider range of power output.
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