Disappointing Range in P3D. Is this normal?

[Camera-Cruiser]

As Tesla/EV drivers I believe we collectively have a tremendous and disproportionate advantage over ICE when you can reliably charge at home. Probably in the 95% area. But if you can’t charge at home that advantage can easily drop based on your access to charging and the climate you live in, and in some cases it is a huge negative.

If you live in a condo in Los Angeles with a 15 mile commute, maybe you have to Supercharge 1X a week with a few opportunistic charges where available. So you get 50% - 75% of EV benefits, and the Tesla smile figures into that too.

However, switch Los Angeles to Minneapolis and that same condo owner may get those same 50% - 75% benefits, but only for half of the year. The other half of the year will drop to negative % EV benefits quickly, and as a species, we tend to remember pain and discomfort more than anything else, and share it with people who don’t even ask.

Hence this forum.

Hence, at the very least, Tesla should have a tiny asterisk next to the range of any of their cars that links to a page that educates potential owners to the various aspects/conditions that affect range. Then, if they showed realistic scenarios to potential owners, less people would be shocked about their actual range, and they would all move to Southern California.

 

[AtlasReardan]

I'm up around 6,500 miles now, and it's settled at an average of 335 wh/mi with all driving in Southern California.

I kind of like the idea of some of these Unplugged Performane/Efficiency upgrades--if I can improve the handling performance AND the efficiency, that seems like a win/win: How do we validate our Model 3 aerodynamics products?

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm up around 6,500 miles now, and it's settled at an average of 335 wh/mi with all driving in Southern California.

I kind of like the idea of some of these Unplugged Performane/Efficiency upgrades--if I can improve the handling performance AND the efficiency, that seems like a win/win: How do we validate our Model 3 aerodynamics products?

I would wait for real world testing. A 21% reduction in aerodynamic drag is an extraordinary claim.
I'm also at 335Wh/mi (with PS4S tires).

 

[beastmode13]

With stock P3 20" I had lifetime average of about 335Wh/mi as well. Then I changed the setup to 255/40/19 PS4 tires and forged wheel, that saved the combined weight of 3.1lbs/corner. 255/40/19 tires are heavy. New setup average is 348Wh/mi. I care about how wide is the smile on my face, not so much the efficiency. I think I am safe to disclose that here on the Driving Dynamic/Performance subforum, after all this is not the Battery/Charging/Efficiency subforum.

For the record, of all the ICE vehicles I ever droved. My lifetime average MPG is 20~25% lower than the EPA rating. So do I fault Tesla for my P3 not reaching the 310 miles on full charge? Hell No. It's my right foot.

 

[wenkan]

This makes me think how is the 2020 roadster 1000km range represented... Most likely it can only achieve that with very careful driving. When you drive it like an ICE car in similar price, it may reduce to only half of the labeled range.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I’m at 6,800 miles on my P3D with 20’s and PS4S tires and my lifetime average is now at 288Wh/mi. I’ve very intentionally altered my driving to achieve this, not to mention my wife drives it too, and she is always under 285Wh/mi.

When I got the car I was running in the 330Wh/mi - 350Wh/mi range having too much fun. Spirited driving was the rule when Southern California traffic (91, 405, 105, 5 freeways) allowed. Seeing a BMW ½ mile ahead was a call to increase pressure in the right foot, etc. I started to realize the adage, that wilth great power comes great responsibility, and started to really slow down after the first 2,500 miles. I know what the car can do now, and use the power very prudently.

I now leave the AC off if it’s under 68, do all California stops (and I mean really coming to the edge of stopping, not rolling on through), accelerate smoothly, but still lead if first at a light, anticipate lights and traffic ahead and get into regen, and even play with hypermiling by dropping into neutral where I know it’s safe, and better than regen, drive curves a little bit more open, instead of scrubbing off speed and rubber. It’s a different kind of mental fun and it’s taken a good 4,000+ miles to reduce my lifetime average down.

So I would say it’s possible to keep a P3D with 20’s under 300Wh/mi in Southern California if you really try. But, again, still do 70-85mph for 5 to 10 mile stretches, until the traffic always takes over bringing you down to 45-65mph.

 

[Daniel in SD]

This makes me think how is the 2020 roadster 1000km range represented... Most likely it can only achieve that with very careful driving. When you drive it like an ICE car in similar price, it may reduce to only half of the labeled range.

If you drive an EV hard enough to get half the EPA range you're probably going to be using the second half of your charge trying to outrun the cops.

 

[Glamisduner]

I'm at 306wh/mi with 19x9" Titan7 wheels and PS4S tires 245/40/19.
I was at 264wh/mi with 18x8.5 aeros and 235/45/18 MX4M tires and no covers.

PS4S tires are a range killer. According to specs (haven't tested actual weights) my tire wheel combos are exactly the same weight (Lighter wheel but heavier and slightly wider tire).

 

[mswlogo]

With stock P3 20" I had lifetime average of about 335Wh/mi as well. Then I changed the setup to 255/40/19 PS4 tires and forged wheel, that saved the combined weight of 3.1lbs/corner. 255/40/19 tires are heavy. New setup average is 348Wh/mi. I care about how wide is the smile on my face, not so much the efficiency. I think I am safe to disclose that here on the Driving Dynamic/Performance subforum, after all this is not the Battery/Charging/Efficiency subforum.

For the record, of all the ICE vehicles I ever droved. My lifetime average MPG is 20~25% lower than the EPA rating. So do I fault Tesla for my P3 not reaching the 310 miles on full charge? Hell No. It's my right foot.

348 wh/mi is awful.

I just did a 130 mile trip on a P3D- with 19” OEM wheels. And averaged 233 wh/mi
The Pirelli P7+ tires are awesome.

 

[beastmode13]

348 wh/mi is awful.

I just did a 130 mile trip on a P3D- with 19” OEM wheels. And averaged 233 wh/mi
The Pirelli P7+ tires are awesome.

 

[brianman]

having too much fun.

I don't understand.

 

[dfwatt]

This makes me think how is the 2020 roadster 1000km range represented... Most likely it can only achieve that with very careful driving. When you drive it like an ICE car in similar price, it may reduce to only half of the labeled range.

Of course. You can get a similar crashing of rated range in a model 3 Performance by driving it shall we say enthusiastically! On the other hand driving it super conservatively I've gotten as high as 180 MPG e. But I think even driving it say at 80 miles an hour on the highway you're going to be getting 400 to 450 miles of range with the new Tesla Roadster. That's still incredible by current standards. If I drive my model 3 at 80 - which is about the average speed down here unfortunately - my Watt hours per mile is about 360 which means I'm lucky if I can squeeze 200 miles out of the car.

 

[dfwatt]

348 wh/mi is awful.

I just did a 130 mile trip on a P3D- with 19” OEM wheels. And averaged 233 wh/mi
The Pirelli P7+ tires are awesome.

What was your average speed? Did you put a sail on the car?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

San Diego. P3D+ stock tires. 287Wh/mi over 4200 miles. (That includes ~10 miles of autocross which added about 3Wh/mi to the overall average.) I'd probably be at closer to 270Wh/mi if I didn't have 800 cumulative feet of elevation gain to get home from work. Slosh hurts.

I figure on a reasonably flat road I can probably get 260-270Wh/mi if I keep it below 60mph (for example, back roads in San Diego county). I think that's about as good as can be expected from the PS4S, which really isn't bad.

 

[cab]

I’m at 6,800 miles on my P3D with 20’s and PS4S tires and my lifetime average is now at 288Wh/mi. I’ve very intentionally altered my driving to achieve this, not to mention my wife drives it too, and she is always under 285Wh/mi.

When I got the car I was running in the 330Wh/mi - 350Wh/mi range having too much fun. Spirited driving was the rule when Southern California traffic (91, 405, 105, 5 freeways) allowed. Seeing a BMW ½ mile ahead was a call to increase pressure in the right foot, etc. I started to realize the adage, that wilth great power comes great responsibility, and started to really slow down after the first 2,500 miles. I know what the car can do now, and use the power very prudently.

I now leave the AC off if it’s under 68, do all California stops (and I mean really coming to the edge of stopping, not rolling on through), accelerate smoothly, but still lead if first at a light, anticipate lights and traffic ahead and get into regen, and even play with hypermiling by dropping into neutral where I know it’s safe, and better than regen, drive curves a little bit more open, instead of scrubbing off speed and rubber. It’s a different kind of mental fun and it’s taken a good 4,000+ miles to reduce my lifetime average down.

So I would say it’s possible to keep a P3D with 20’s under 300Wh/mi in Southern California if you really try. But, again, still do 70-85mph for 5 to 10 mile stretches, until the traffic always takes over bringing you down to 45-65mph.

So, I know over the years you seemed to wish you had a “P” car (vs. your S85), and have commented that the P3 doesn’t have that same “hit” as the Model S “P” cars (perhaps because of the pm vs induction motor). Anyway, now that you are focusing on driving more efficiently, do you sort of wish you had saved the cash and just gotten an LR 3 RWD last year. I have an older P85+, and am keenly aware of the difference in “feel” vs a P3, but I also know I’m just not nailing it in the P85 like I used to either. As an aside, I think my P85+ lifetime average is about 340.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

So, I know over the years you seemed to wish you had a “P” car (vs. your S85), and have commented that the P3 doesn’t have that same “hit” as the Model S “P” cars (perhaps because of the pm vs induction motor). Anyway, now that you are focusing on driving more efficiently, do you sort of wish you had saved the cash and just gotten an LR 3 RWD last year. I have an older P85+, and am keenly aware of the difference in “feel” vs a P3, but I also know I’m just not nailing it in the P85 like I used to either. As an aside, I think my P85+ lifetime average is about 340.

P cars, like bacon, are “want” items. Though many people will argue about bacon being a necessity.

I still want my P3D to hit like a P85+, who wouldn’t?

It’s a catch-22 for me really. If I had gotten the LR RWD, then I’d be lusting for the power and reading every article about track mode with lust (even though I don’t track it). Now I read about people with LR RWD getting in the low 200Wh/mi and I want that, plus cost savings of not paying for a P. So the grass is always greener, etc.

On the positive side, I can always change wheels and tires and get a 10-15 efficiency bump, but if I got the LR RWD I’d never be able to up the power, other than firmware upgrades.

Also, if you have read many of my past posts, I got here (P3D) because I always thought that the all-wheel-drive model would have better efficiency, like the S. Before the AWD came out Musk tweeted that it would be more efficient than the LR3, so I waited, thinking that if the LR really got 310 miles on a charge, then the AWD would be in the 340+ camp. Then I test drove a P and clicked the buy button.

As we all learned, in actuality the LR RWD is the mileage king. If I had the same data that I have today, I would’ve got the LR RWD, but still pined away for the P3D. So, I have at least scratched that itch, and when it’s time to sell, I’ll be able to say “gently used by an old fart” truthfully.

Bottom line. Best of both worlds is an off menu or used LR AWD and a used P85+.

 

[mswlogo]

What was your average speed? Did you put a sail on the car?

65 mph. Probably 20 miles of that was around town. These 19” P7+ tires are doing almost exactly the same as Aero’s with covers. Same 42 psi. And lots of folks with AWD and Aero’s easily beat 250 wh/mi (no heat).

It’s those sticky OEM 20” Michelin tires that eat range.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

It’s those sticky OEM 20” Michelin tires that eat range.

Yup.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

65 mph. Probably 20 miles of that was around town. These 19” P7+ tires are doing almost exactly the same as Aero’s with covers. Same 42 psi. And lots of folks with AWD and Aero’s easily beat 250 wh/mi (no heat).

It’s those sticky OEM 20” Michelin tires that eat range.

With that sort of efficiency from your tires, no wonder you don’t feel good going around 30mph corners at 60mph! They must be not too grippy!

How do you like them? Sounds like wet traction might be lacking?

 

[mswlogo]

With that sort of efficiency from your tires, no wonder you don’t feel good going around 30mph corners at 60mph! They must be not too grippy!

How do you like them? Sounds like wet traction might be lacking?

They are admitted noted for lower wet traction than some competing tires. But not terrible by any means. But I rarely lose grip in wet conditions with any tire in any car. I drive accordingly to the conditions and the vehicle I’m in. My Xi3 snows are also very noted for poor wet performance, I didn’t even notice. But I do notice how quiet and efficient a tire is. I did notice they were kind a squishy on corners though.

I absolutely love the P7+ tires because they are quiet and efficient. Which is what’s most important to me. The car feels absolutely glued compared to anything I’ve ever driven. The difference between fantastic and insane is not even on my radar.

I simply can’t afford new tires every 20k miles (or less) or the car running at 350 wh/mi.