Discussion: Powershare [V2X feature currently announced for Cybertruck]

[Marktm250]

The Ford "Power Play" runs DC from the battery to the home inverter, but AFAIK there's no way to tap into the Cybertruck pack directly. Powershare outputs AC through the NACS port.

I was very interested in the Lightning backup system - and then realized that the "bidirectionality" (energy out via DC ports of CCS) was off-grid only using Delta BDI hybrid inverters for home backup. I do not believe that the Ford's HV battery can be recharged (say by excess solar) as the schema only shows DC energy flowing into the BDI via the Ford Charge Station Pro when off grid - no "DC" based charging. Can the FCSP somehow provide AC based charging to the Lightning when off grid so that excess solar can be utilized? That does not appear to be part of the system specifications (see link).
Bottom line to me is that the system's basic design of the FCSP is for V2H only - and limited to a single charge of the HV battery - definitely not a true island able microgrid based on V2X . Can anyone correct this assumption?
I realize this is not directly germane to the Powershare, but I am struggling to understanding the different limitations of the AC based V2X capabilities of the CT with full solar/wind energy capabilities both on and off grid i.e., the CT's HV battery is simply another backup battery that can be used for energy arbitrage, grid resilience, reliability, etc. etc. AND will I be able to trade my MYLR when/if a similar "powershare" capability (PCS?) is available?

Sunrun install schema;
Field Website - Ford EV Charger

 

[miimura]

CyberTruck is off-grid only V2H. It does not allow V2G at all, so arbitrage is off the table. I have not seen confirmation, but when a Powerwall system is off-grid it should be able to sink or source energy with the CyberTruck - ie. charge or discharge based on generation and loads.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

So I got an e-mail today, they're only giving me a $700 Tesla Shop credit with the Foundation Series AWD order.
I have existing Powerwalls at home but my Tesla wall charger is not behind the Powerwalls. So Tesla doesn't want to do anything to enable PowerShare... just give me a $700 store credit for t-shirts and junk in appeasement. Speechless.

 

[Jones1]

So I got an e-mail today, they're only giving me a $700 Tesla Shop credit with the Foundation Series AWD order.
I have existing Powerwalls at home but my Tesla wall charger is not behind the Powerwalls. So Tesla doesn't want to do anything to enable PowerShare... just give me a $700 store credit for t-shirts and junk in appeasement. Speechless.

View attachment 1026950

Explain the TWC not behind PW.

 

[miimura]

Explain the TWC not behind PW.

The Wall Connector is wired with the "Non-essential loads" in the diagram below, not the "Backup loads". In order for PowerShare to work during an outage with Powerwalls, it has to be wired with the Backup loads. When the grid goes down, the Gateway opens the switch and everything on the right side of the diagram is without power.

 

[Jones1]

The Wall Connector is wired with the "Non-essential loads" in the diagram below, not the "Backup loads". In order for PowerShare to work during an outage with Powerwalls, it has to be wired with the Backup loads. When the grid goes down, the Gateway opens the switch and everything on the right side of the diagram is without power.

View attachment 1026970

Ok Thanks. I have no extra panel. My setup is whole home backup.

 

[h2ofun]

The Wall Connector is wired with the "Non-essential loads" in the diagram below, not the "Backup loads". In order for PowerShare to work during an outage with Powerwalls, it has to be wired with the Backup loads. When the grid goes down, the Gateway opens the switch and everything on the right side of the diagram is without power.

View attachment 1026970

Yep, I have my house all backed up, but I also currently put my wall connectors in front of the GW. Oh well, I could change it but for now, ...

 

[Vines]

Yep, I have my house all backed up, but I also currently put my wall connectors in front of the GW. Oh well, I could change it but for now, ...

This is why I assume Tesla has been recommending installing wall connectors inside the backup system, since they saw this coming before the rest of us did.

 

[mongo]

This is why I assume Tesla has been recommending installing wall connectors inside the backup system, since they saw this coming before the rest of us did.

Yeah, and they knew the feature road map.
Charge on solar was a big game changer since it will load shed during power outages. That along with Dynamic Power Management removed two of the main reasons not to backup the WC.

 

[mspohr]

This is why I assume Tesla has been recommending installing wall connectors inside the backup system, since they saw this coming before the rest of us did.

Of course, many people put the wall connector outside the PW so they wouldn't drain the battery.
I hope that Tesla would have some provision to disable the wall connector when running on battery so it doesn't deplete the battery unnecessarily.

 

[MP3Mike]

I hope that Tesla would have some provision to disable the wall connector when running on battery so it doesn't deplete the battery unnecessarily.

There are settings for that, I think you can set a percentage that it won't charge if the Powerwalls are below a set percentage.

 

[miimura]

There are settings for that, I think you can set a percentage that it won't charge if the Powerwalls are below a set percentage.

Yes, but that only works with Tesla vehicles. If you have a non-Tesla vehicle and EVSE, the only way to prevent discharge during an outage is to connect it on the grid side of the Gateway.

 

[Vines]

Yes, but that only works with Tesla vehicles. If you have a non-Tesla vehicle and EVSE, the only way to prevent discharge during an outage is to connect it on the grid side of the Gateway.

Yes, true though I can't see why there couldn't be some functionality unlocked through software in the future especially if you are using a Tesla charger that is added to your home account. Even if charging would only be stopped while off grid without care to SoC of the EV that would be enough for most people and still provide an incentive to stay within the ecosystem to get the additional functionality of picking a reserve percentage to charge to while off grid.

 

[miimura]

Yes, true though I can't see why there couldn't be some functionality unlocked through software in the future especially if you are using a Tesla charger that is added to your home account. Even if charging would only be stopped while off grid without care to SoC of the EV that would be enough for most people and still provide an incentive to stay within the ecosystem to get the additional functionality of picking a reserve percentage to charge to while off grid.

Yes, Tesla should definitely enable this feature in their Wall Connectors, especially the Universal one so that it stops charging when the PW system goes off-grid. Bonus points for changing to Surplus Solar charging when batteries are getting full and there is extra solar production. Heck, while I’m dreaming, enable Surplus Solar charging of non-Tesla vehicles when on grid too!

 

[mongo]

Bonus points for changing to Surplus Solar charging when batteries are getting full and there is extra solar production. Heck, while I’m dreaming, enable Surplus Solar charging of non-Tesla vehicles when on grid too!

Charge on Solar does that now controlled by the vehicle, which is sort of where it has to be since the UWC can't see state of charge nor when the driver needs the vehicle again.

 

[miimura]

Charge on Solar does that now controlled by the vehicle, which is sort of where it has to be since the UWC can't see state of charge nor when the driver needs the vehicle again.

You only need SOC for Charge to X SOC on any source and Y SOC on Solar. If you dumb it down to Charge to full on Solar, you can do it completely without the vehicle data. The EVSE only needs to know the amount of surplus solar available at any given moment. The vehicle can decide on its own what SOC “full” is.

 

[mspohr]

I can see some benefit from charging the car from excess solar after the PW is full and especially if you don't get credit for export but that could easily be managed with an intelligent wall connector connected outside the PW when the grid is active.
Since the car battery is about 10 times the capacity of the PW, I don't see much point in charging the car from the PW except in an emergency.
I have 20 kWh of batteries and a wall charger connected outside the batteries. I've thought that if I needed an emergency charge during a power failure I could just plug in my portable charger to the battery powered side of my system. Never needed to do it, though.

 

[mongo]

You only need SOC for Charge to X SOC on any source and Y SOC on Solar. If you dumb it down to Charge to full on Solar, you can do it completely without the vehicle data. The EVSE only needs to know the amount of surplus solar available at any given moment. The vehicle can decide on its own what SOC “full” is.

If the EVSE only advertises the solar surplus as its current limit, how can you guarantee the vehicle gets charged?

 

[miimura]

If the EVSE only advertises the solar surplus as its current limit, how can you guarantee the vehicle gets charged?

If it's a grid down situation, it's better to put the energy in a car than to just curtail it, which is what happens when Powerwall batteries get full when the grid is down.

If the grid is up, you can choose whether to just use surplus solar or charge with solar and a minimum amperage to ensure that the car gets charged.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

I was hoping Tesla would support this upgrading to a new partial backup topology (in red) with an additional Gateway V3 and home PowerSharing to a non-Powerwall backed wall connector, but alas it seems they won't or can't...