DIY solution to deadening tire noise

[Sogorman]

I'm starting with the 20" Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus, which is a pretty quiet tire to begin with. Next up will be the 21" Michelin Pilot Super Sport XL, very noisy in comparison. The foam is 1" thick with a perforated vinyl layer on top and the layer I'll add weighs less than 16 ounces. It will be glued in with gel contact cement, which I've already tested.

Seeing the results of the 21" Super Sport will be interesting. Are you going to take baseline and post treatment Db reading? Also when you say, "The foam is 1" thick with a perforated vinyl layer on top and the layer I'll add weighs less than 16 ounces" what layer are you going to add? Is it the glue or something onto the foam in addition to the 1" stock foam from the factory?

 

[artsci]

Seeing the results of the 21" Super Sport will be interesting. Are you going to take baseline and post treatment Db reading? Also when you say, "The foam is 1" thick with a perforated vinyl layer on top and the layer I'll add weighs less than 16 ounces" what layer are you going to add? Is it the glue or something onto the foam in addition to the 1" stock foam from the factory?

I already have baseline readings. The weight is a total -- the foam including the vinyl layer. It's not a mass vinyl, so it's light, and it has tiny holes punched in it. The contact cement will add a minimum of weight -- a probably 4-5 ounces.

 

[artsci]

I now have the scoop directly from the manufacturer on how this works and the specific foam. Believe me, it's different from anything else I was able to find.

Problem is I had to sign an NDA, so I have to keep this all in confidence. The foam has a patent pending which is why confidentiality is important.

I'm waiting to hear if they will make the foam available for DIY applications. I've asked if I can order it first for my own tires. The answer appears to be positive but I'm waiting for a formal yes. I've also asked if I can make DIY kits available to other Tesla owners. Hope to get the answers tomorrow.

In the meantime the foam I've already purchased has become an antique in 24 hours

 

[AlMc]

I now have the scoop directly from the manufacturer on how this works and the specific foam. Believe me, it's different from anything else I was able to find.

Problem is I had to sign an NDA, so I have to keep this all in confidence. The foam has a patent pending which is why confidentiality is important.

I'm waiting to hear if they will make the foam available for DIY applications. I've asked if I can order it first for my own tires. The answer appears to be positive but I'm waiting for a formal yes. I've also asked if I can make DIY kits available to other Tesla owners. Hope to get the answers tomorrow.

In the meantime the foam I've already purchased has become an antique in 24 hours

Thanks. Are you of the opinion that you are expecting that your tire noise reduction may be equal to all the other work you had your friends do in sound proofing your car?

 

[artsci]

Thanks. Are you of the opinion that you are expecting that your tire noise reduction may be equal to all the other work you had your friends do in sound proofing your car?

It may very well be, as the other sound deadening work makes the tire noise all the more apparent as the primary source of offensive sound. According to the data I have from the manufacturer their foam reduces tire noise by as much as 14dB which would make quite a noticeable difference.

 

[AlMc]

It may very well be, as the other sound deadening work makes the tire noise all the more apparent as the primary source of offensive sound. According to the data I have from the manufacturer their foam reduces tire noise by as much as 14dB which would make quite a noticeable difference.

Well, that would certainly be a much less time consuming and expensive solution for reducing noise. I will be very interested in your test results and sign me up for some of the 'magic foam' if you have any left over and feel it will not violate your NDA

 

[green1]

In the meantime the foam I've already purchased has become an antique in 24 hours

Do you know if the foam you have is "useless", "less usefull", or simply "different" than the official stuff?

I mean, just because it isn't the same foam doesn't mean it's useless, and I'm sure many people here would be willing to go with it if it has positive results, even if it isn't the "official" or absolute best.

 

[mdevp]

14dB?!!! This thread is getting better and better!

 

[artsci]

Do you know if the foam you have is "useless", "less usefull", or simply "different" than the official stuff?

I mean, just because it isn't the same foam doesn't mean it's useless, and I'm sure many people here would be willing to go with it if it has positive results, even if it isn't the "official" or absolute best.

All I can say is that the manufacturer's foam has protection from tire heat. The foam I ordered does not. That's a safety difference that I think is pretty important.

 

[Sogorman]

Thanks for the leg work on this @artsci. 14dB is huge and would represent almost taking tire noise out of the equation.

Keep us posted on the approval of how-to documentation or possible kits.

Sean

 

[artsci]

Thanks for the leg work on this @artsci. 14dB is huge and would represent almost taking tire noise out of the equation.

Keep us posted on the approval of how-to documentation or possible kits.

Sean

Had to re-sign the NDA last evening so I hope to hear today from the manufacturer about the foam availability and the idea of DIY kits.

 

[green1]

All I can say is that the manufacturer's foam has protection from tire heat. The foam I ordered does not. That's a safety difference that I think is pretty important.

Do you know what the temperature rating is of the foam you ordered? should be easy enough to figure out if that's adequate or not.

 

[artsci]

Do you know what the temperature rating is of the foam you ordered? should be easy enough to figure out if that's adequate or not.

The the foam I have does not have heat ratings but the glue is also a concern regarding the effect of heat. So I have more checking to do on the foam I have.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Call me skeptical. Rubber by its very nature is a sound insulator. I don't see how applying foam to the inside of a tire would have any impact on the sound heard externally. The external sounds are those of friction with the road surface, rotation and wind turbulence - in other words, the sounds are already external to the tire. The appropriate solution would be better dampening around the wheel wells and what causes wheel well noise to be transmitted into the cabin.

I would have thought that all of the other sound proofing that you did would have addressed wheel well noise? When I give people test drives, the only noise they complain about is the wheel well noise because the cabin is already incredibly quiet. It sounds like adding sound deadening material in the wheel well area and points of transmission would have the greatest single benefit without needing to dampen the rest of the vehicle or the inside of the tires.

 

[green1]

The hollow tire allows sounds to resonate, it makes a lot of sense that this would in fact reduce the sound, how much is a perfectly valid question though.

 

[artsci]

The hollow tire allows sounds to resonate, it makes a lot of sense that this would in fact reduce the sound, how much is a perfectly valid question though.

I've found a number of serious research papers on the topic as well as patent applications. They all demonstrate considerable reductions in road noise heard in the interior by absorbing noise within the tire itself.

Yes, the tires produce a lot of noise outside the car but the resonances inside the tire are transmitted through the wheel and into the chassis. As is the case with sound control, the most efficient way to dampen noise is to deal with it at the source.

 

[bollar]

Call me skeptical. Rubber by its very nature is a sound insulator. I don't see how applying foam to the inside of a tire would have any impact on the sound heard externally.

Well, we do know that the Continental ContiSportContact 5 (ContiSilent version) is quieter than the regular ContiSportContact 5. It was easy enough to do A/B testing between cars at the Service Center and hear the difference, which is significant.

 

[mdevp]

Call me skeptical...

This whole project started from people observing how much quieter service cars were recently and someone noticing foam in their 21's. Can't wait till the results, even if it turns out you are correct, the process of artsi's investigating and testing is very interesting to me.

 

[bob_p]

Recently one of the local freeways was updated to put an asphalt top over the original concrete roadbed.

The sound difference between driving on the asphalt and concrete is huge. On the asphalt, probably because it's still new and smooth, there's almost no road noise at all. While on the concrete roadbed, the road noise is very noticeable.

If putting foam into the tires can provide reduced road noise like riding with "new asphalt" - that would be fantastic...

 

[artsci]

Still waiting on word from the tire foam manufacturer.

As it likely is made in Europe, where this technology was pioneered (Germany to be precise) it may have to be shipped from there.