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DIY solution to deadening tire noise
- Thread starter artsci
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
green1
Active Member
Bang on a drum, it makes lots of noise, stuff a towel inside it and hit it again, it makes less noise. The noise source is on the outside of the drum, but the towel makes a big difference because the sound resonates inside the drum.
Green1 has got it. The foam absorbs resonate noise in the tire itself (which is a kind of drum) making it quieter in the cabin.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
This whole project is very interesting, thanks for doing it Rick!
To those sceptical and pointing out that it would be best to dampen around the wheel wells please remember that the tire is directly attached to the wheel which in turn is directly attached to the mounting pad with tight lug nuts. The mouting pad is attached to the suspension which in turn is connected to the steering column... and so on. So my point is the wheel is not free floating in the wheel well - there is a direct mechanical linkage between the rubber of the wheel to the inside of the car and there is of course some dampening at various points, such as rubber in the steering joints for example, but no matter how well you insulate the wheel well sound will resonate through these links to the interior of the car and eventually your eardrum.
Also, all those scientific papers may be of more value than us lay-person's opinions
To those sceptical and pointing out that it would be best to dampen around the wheel wells please remember that the tire is directly attached to the wheel which in turn is directly attached to the mounting pad with tight lug nuts. The mouting pad is attached to the suspension which in turn is connected to the steering column... and so on. So my point is the wheel is not free floating in the wheel well - there is a direct mechanical linkage between the rubber of the wheel to the inside of the car and there is of course some dampening at various points, such as rubber in the steering joints for example, but no matter how well you insulate the wheel well sound will resonate through these links to the interior of the car and eventually your eardrum.
Also, all those scientific papers may be of more value than us lay-person's opinions
This whole project is very interesting, thanks for doing it Rick!
To those sceptical and pointing out that it would be best to dampen around the wheel wells please remember that the tire is directly attached to the wheel which in turn is directly attached to the mounting pad with tight lug nuts. The mouting pad is attached to the suspension which in turn is connected to the steering column... and so on. So my point is the wheel is not free floating in the wheel well - there is a direct mechanical linkage between the rubber of the wheel to the inside of the car and there is of course some dampening at various points, such as rubber in the steering joints for example, but no matter how well you insulate the wheel well sound will resonate through these links to the interior of the car and eventually your eardrum.
Also, all those scientific papers may be of more value than us lay-person's opinions
As should be obvious, I've done a ton of research on this. Everything credible I've read about lining the wheel wells indicates that it produces only minor gains at best.
On the other hand, there are quite a few research papers on tire noise reduction, including one co-authored by a Tesla engineer, that provide solid evidence and data supporting lining of the inner tire tread with foam. I also found three or or four patent applications from tire manufacturers for foam solutions. With all of this I have no doubt that this will work. And the fact that one of the leading foam manufactures at the forefront of this technology thinks there is a DIY solution also gives me confidence. So I'll get this done as soon as the right materials are in place, probably next week. My tire shop will let me do the foam installation there (not something I want to do at home, given the smell of the vapors given off by the glue) and that will make it much easier, as each wheel /tire combo can be rebalanced after the foam is installed.
It will work with any size tire -- 19, 20, 21. I have wheels and tires in all three sizes so I'll eventually do all three.
The first installation I'll do is with new 20" Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus, which is a pretty quiet tire to begin with. Those have been sitting uninstalled for at least a month waiting for the wheels and the right foam.
Next I'll do both my used 19" Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus (also a relatively quiet tire) and used 21" Michelin Pilot Super Sport XL (a noisy tire).
I'll run the Pireilis until about April 1 then switch to the Michelin. Not sure yet what I'll do with the 19" Bridgestones (which are mounted on Rial Lugano wheels). Both the Tesla 21's and Rial 19" wheels will be re powder coated while the tires are off for the winter (both have some bad curb rash).
^^^^This. In addition, the pressure in the tire tightens the carcass ply cables like violin strings so that they resonate with the frequency of the tread and road aggregate. If sound absorption material is placed inside the violin's belly, there will be much less sound.
The real concern is heat and getting the glue to stick without having to buff the entire interior tread area. (Too much chance to buff through the tubeless lining. That won't make the tire leak noticeably, but in about six months the tread or sidewall rubber will start to debond from the carcass or tread plies.)
Assuming you can overcome the buffing problem (and the foam manufacturer has overcome the heat problem), then to get a good bond, find a tube that will fit in the tire and use that to make sure the foam has good contact while the glue sets.
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There is a solution to the heat problem but for now the NDA I signed prevents me from talking about it. I can say that it's brilliantly simple. As for the glue I'm waiting to learn what they recommend. It needs to survive heat up to about 180F.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
The ContiSilent repair document references plain-old Rema Tip-Top vulcanizing cement.
That's for small patch repair. I suspect they don't use it for the entire foam piece. I've already tested it and it's not as strong as some alternatives. I do think is's best to wait for the advice from the manufacturer of the tire foam.
Sogorman
Member
Thanks for the update artsci. Keep us posted and thanks again for the leg work on this.... exciting.
I hope this works out in a way that benefits all of us.
I've just reviewed the new NDA and while I have to be careful about what I say this solution is far more sophisticated than anything I've been able to glean about the Continental approach. I'm hoping they'll sell me the foam as based on what I know now my homemade solution just won't cut it.
This get's more interesting every day. Recticel has proposed to sell me set of tires with its HTC sound deadening foam system installed. I would install the tires on a set of wheels for testing. If the testing proves successful, they would then make DIY kits available to Tesla owners for retrofitting to existing tires.
I told them I was all for this approach. I probably won't get a confirmation until after the holidays but depending on how and where they intend to do the testing, I may need another owner to volunteer for the installation and testing.
So stay tuned.
I told them I was all for this approach. I probably won't get a confirmation until after the holidays but depending on how and where they intend to do the testing, I may need another owner to volunteer for the installation and testing.
So stay tuned.
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