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Due to the price of Model 3 options (at least EAP) being on par with Model S, I've changed my mind and now will probably NOT get EAP at initial purchase. The way I look at it, I can always get it later if I REALLY want it (and want to save up for it) but it might be better to wait because after a couple of years anything becomes a bit "familiar". Drive the Model 3 for several years and THEN add EAP? Completely new experience.

But I haven't had to hit "finalize" on the configuration screen yet, either! ;):(
 
Sure. EAP gives you limited self-driving. Plus, for that $5K, you get future over the air updates which will make EAP gradually better at self-driving over time. So you are not just paying for what EAP can do now, but you are paying for what EAP will be able to do in the future.

You say sure. I say no. I know how to drive on a highway and park a vehicle. Autopilot isn't a must for me. I can't justify it.
 
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Heres my question. The enhanced AP is always talked about in the options. Enhanced. Hence there must be a basic that comes with the car right? What does that do? (This is a serious question not a troll) Basic AP only the breaking and crash avoidance?

Let me try to explain. "enhanced autopilot" is simply the new name for "autopilot" on the newer cars that have the self-driving hardware. Tesla changed the name of autopilot to "enhanced autopilot" because they planned to leverage the new hardware to make autopilot even better. Via over the air updates, this "enhanced autopilot" would not just function better than the old autopilot but also have additional features. If you don't get the "enhanced autopilot", you don't get any autopilot at all. You just get the standard safety features like automatic emergency braking and I think you also get "dumb" cruise control but that's it.
 
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Let me try to explain. "enhanced autopilot" is simply the new name for "autopilot" on the newer cars that have the self-driving hardware. Tesla changed the name of autopilot to "enhanced autopilot" because they planned to leverage the new hardware to make autopilot even better. Via over the air updates, this "enhanced autopilot" would not just function better than the old autopilot but also have additional features. If you don't get the "enhanced autopilot", you don't get any autopilot at all. You just get the standard safety features like automatic emergency braking and I think you also get "dumb" cruise control but that's it.
This is 100% correct.
 
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Don't most cars in this class come with adaptive cruise control as standard? Then really in the comparison of Model 3 to BMW 3 and such, a $40K Model 3 should be calculated from.
I can imagine this feature helps so much with driver fatigue (and dangerous tailgating), that it should be considered a safety feature rather than a lazy driver aid. The $5K feels grossly overpriced. If they ever do become self drivable, the $3K extra for that seems fair though.
 
Genuine question, at this point today, what does FSD package provide in the model S that separates itself from EAP?
a87161c6ed5b8e1f70f3fd5009173d367b003272f58f2e37d72e6492b64497a5.jpg
 
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Don't most cars in this class come with adaptive cruise control as standard? Then really in the comparison of Model 3 to BMW 3 and such, a $40K Model 3 should be calculated from.
I can imagine this feature helps so much with driver fatigue (and dangerous tailgating), that it should be considered a safety feature rather than a lazy driver aid. The $5K feels grossly overpriced. If they ever do become self drivable, the $3K extra for that seems fair though.
If we compare to the BMW 3 series... it's first available on the 330i as a $1200 option making the total price $39,950. A base model 3 with autopilot is $40,000
 
Yeah. Only

Exactly. That's the only part of AP that I really care about - the crash avoidance features. The rest hits me as gimmicks. And I worry Tesla is opening themselves up to a class action suit on the full self driving option, because I do not expect that to come any time soon, if at all. There's just so many factors that go into a human's reading of the road beyond just following white lines. And some are region-specific. Example: around here, if you see a group of sheep on the side of the road, that's a "you should probably slow down" scenario. However, if you see a ewe on one side and a lamb on the other, that's a should definitely slow down scenario. Because the lamb will always run to its mother, across the road, when you approach. How long do you think it'll be before someone writes a "sheep / ewe / lamb" image recognition algorithm into AP and the rules associated with dealing with them?

There's just so, so much that we do that helps us determine how we should be driving. Here people often drive in the middle of the road in the countryside (aka straight over the lane divider) because the sides are more dangerous - do you think AP knows that? On the road to my land, I adjust my speed based on the frequency of potholes, my assessment of their depth, how close they are to each other relative to my speed, whether they're on a slope or flat land, whether they're on the steep slope that has a canyon and no guard rail on the side vs. an area that would be safe to accidentally slide off the road on, etc. How much of that do you think AP takes into account, or ever will? If I'm driving down the road, and I notice that it's a different colour ahead, I change speed because that might mean a worse road surface or unexpected construction. Do you think AP does that? If I'm driving in rugged terrain and I see plant growth on the road ahead of me, I go ahead and assume the road is turning - while if I see growth suddenly disappear somewhere, I assume there's a canyon there. If I see an unusual shadow on the road, I slow down because it might be debris or the like on the road, or maybe a dead animal. If I'm approaching an area with a concrete wall to the side in an area with high winds, I preemptively angle my steering a bit because I know the winds shift when you approach the wall, and when you pass it. On and on and on. These things take judgement, not just line following. You can easily make software to do 99,9% of self driving, but that last 0,1%, that's an immensely more difficult problem.

Even line following.... if you want to travel around my country in the winter, here's what the roads can look like:

snow_winter_road_west_fjords.jpg


The concept that a less-than-human-level-intelligence is not going to get me killed on a road like that.... sorry, I have no faith in that.
 
But, so is the hardware.

All Tesla is doing is charging enough to offset the cost of the HW that's added. It's unfortunate to those of us who only want one feature of it, but I see it as a necessity.

I'm okay with it since I strongly believe the extra hardware across the board will save lives.

I wish other car manufactures did the same thing.

Now this is just with the EAP package. I definitely don't like or wish the FSD option on anyways.

The paying for hardware argument fails, because all Model 3s will have all of the hardware, it isn't added, it's part of the base price.

As several people have mentioned, monitoring AP is more stressful than driving yourself. This agrees with my Navy experiences.

CPO? No, I do not want a bigger car. If I did, I would have purchased a Model S years ago.

The added resale value fails, because the hardware is in place and the software for various features could always be turned on at the buyer's expense. I really doubt there would be a $5000 difference or $4000 or $3000, in resale value. I suspect only the bigger battery will have much resale value.

Over the air updates? Software updates tend to change how something works, that's the whole point. I'm not sold on having to read up on overnight changes before I can drive to work.

Take a look at my join date, I've had over a decade to think about what I want.
 
Exactly. That's the only part of AP that I really care about - the crash avoidance features. The rest hits me as gimmicks. And I worry Tesla is opening themselves up to a class action suit on the full self driving option, because I do not expect that to come any time soon, if at all.

Well, full self-driving that is 100% finished and works in every scenario will of course take awhile. But I doubt Tesla will release finished FSD right away. More likely, Tesla will do what it has done with autopilot, it will release features piece meal that will gradually improve AP towards FSD. So, we will get features that will add more autonomy in certain driving situations. But make no mistake, FSD may take awhile but L3 and L4 autonomous driving is coming very very soon.

There's just so many factors that go into a human's reading of the road beyond just following white lines. And some are region-specific.

You bring up some good examples. Obviously, there are these special driving scenarios that FSD will need to be able to handle correctly. In fact, that is why companies are working on AI because there are too many special cases to simply program them all into the car, so the car will need to be truly intelligent and think about how to handle new situations. That is why true FSD is taking as long as it has. If self-driving cars were just a matter of maintaining the right speed and staying in the lane, we would have had them a long time ago.

But as I mentioned above, partial FSD is going to happen very soon and FSD will happen someday. People who think that FSD will never happen are fooling themselves. In the beginning, partial FSD won't be able to handle every situation but it will allow some self-driving in the most common driving scenarios. And FSD will get better and better and learn how to handle more and more situations until it is able to handle all driving situations like the ones you bring up.

Even line following.... if you want to travel around my country in the winter, here's what the roads can look like:

The concept that a less-than-human-level-intelligence is not going to get me killed on a road like that.... sorry, I have no faith in that.

You are being a bit unfair as this is a very extreme weather condition that would kill many human drivers. Sure, FSD will need to be able to handle that situation at some point but how about we judge FSD in a more typical driving scenario first and then go from there? There are plenty of demos of FSD where the car is able to handle normal driving situations pretty well.

But I'll grant you this: if that is what the roads look like in winter for you then no, AP is not for you.
 
Basic AP being accident avoidance, which the Prius has, along with nearly every mid level car made this year forward. Calling it Enhanced implies a level of AP that auto pilots. There is no pilot in the basic, there is a 'oh crap' pilot.

As I havnt driven a AP car yet I can't speak to the need to monitor it. I can tell you there is no way AP enhanced, full, experimental or likewise. That can drive me from my house to work all alone. I'd be sitting on the on ramp for a hour while it looked for a gap that would never happen, it also would t fight it's way across 5 lanes of stopped traffic to get in the car pool lane. Then fight it's way back to get off. All I would end up doubgb with that is yelling at it, and the people that speed up just to keep me from getting over. That said it might be able to drive me to Flagstaff on a Saturday. FSB is useless to me and worse if regulators cripple some of it.
 
The paying for hardware argument fails, because all Model 3s will have all of the hardware, it isn't added, it's part of the base price.

As several people have mentioned, monitoring AP is more stressful than driving yourself. This agrees with my Navy experiences.

CPO? No, I do not want a bigger car. If I did, I would have purchased a Model S years ago.

The added resale value fails, because the hardware is in place and the software for various features could always be turned on at the buyer's expense. I really doubt there would be a $5000 difference or $4000 or $3000, in resale value. I suspect only the bigger battery will have much resale value.

Over the air updates? Software updates tend to change how something works, that's the whole point. I'm not sold on having to read up on overnight changes before I can drive to work.

Take a look at my join date, I've had over a decade to think about what I want.

What you don't seem to understand is the hardware that enables the safety features that every car has is expensive. So if no one got the EAP package it wouldn't support having the hardware there in the first place. It's there with an expectation that X percentage of people will have it.

This might only be a valid reason to me, but it's a big part of why I'm okay with it. On my AP1 Model S the TACC is about 90% of the usefulness of the AP1 package. So sure like you I would get TACC only in a heart beat, but I don't think its viable from a margins perspective.

I completely agree that monitoring the current version of AP is way more stressful than driving myself. That's precisely why I don't use it. I'm not sure what you're replying to on that one.

I'm also not sure what relevance your join date has on anything. Most of what I argue is for people reading the thread.
 
Don't most cars in this class come with adaptive cruise control as standard? Then really in the comparison of Model 3 to BMW 3 and such, a $40K Model 3 should be calculated from.
I can imagine this feature helps so much with driver fatigue (and dangerous tailgating), that it should be considered a safety feature rather than a lazy driver aid. The $5K feels grossly overpriced. If they ever do become self drivable, the $3K extra for that seems fair though.

The problem that Tesla has is they implemented a really expensive hardware solution that's meant to do a lot more, and it's on every car. They also implemented a really good TACC solution that can see two cars ahead. So it's not just responding to the car ahead of you, but to the one ahead of that. That isn't something a $35K fancy Subaru Outback can do.

So how does Tesla package that to maintain healthy average margins on the car? The other components within the EAP package aren't compelling enough for the average person right now. Once they do become compelling enough then I could see Tesla including it standard or as a more reasonably priced option. Right now they can't because they don't have the E of AP, the smart of summons, or self park that works consistently.

There also isn't anything to really compel them to do so. The Bolt currently doesn't have the feature, but it's supposed to at some point. The new Leaf is supposed to have it. Both cars will likely have fairly advanced systems. So I'm not sure how much cheaper they'd be.