Do Some V11 Issues Warrant NHTSHA Reporting? Here's How to Do It.

[father_of_6]

V11 was an attempt to move the UI conceptually closer to cars that are equipped with FSD beta. I know that a lot of people here think that the UI change was Elon's doing or maybe even a few incompetent people on the software design team. I don't agree with this view. I believe that it was a consensus effort at Tesla from the top to bottom.

Unfortunately, most Tesla's don't have FSD and even less have FSD beta. If the UI change had been limited to FSD beta cars, there still would have been grousing and hand wringing, but impact on the total installed base would have been limited. FSD beta users know that they are Tesla's pet guinea pigs, so they probably would have first complained and then been happy with a few changes from the original V11 UI. Right now, no FSD beta cars have 2022.12.1, so those of us in the beta program will have to wait.

So what have we now with 2022.12.1? A few icons were put back on the top status bar. The user can now add more icons to the bottom task bar. A couple lost V10 functions returned. These changes were the most common ones that people asked for.

But the original V11 UI changes that are more in line with autonomous driving are still available as an option. Personally, the left stalk taps and the auto seat heaters will continue to be my choice. Besides, I rarely fool with the touchscreen while driving, except to select media and change the navigation route. To me, using the touchscreen is just a short hop from using your phone while driving.

What did the UI changes have to do with FSD? I literally can't think of one thing that would somehow lend itself to better "Full Self Driving".

They homogenized the menus (and I find them harder to spot the buttons I'm looking for)... they destroyed the bottom bar... Messed with map controls, shrunk a handful of font sizes.

 

[jabloomf1230]

What did the UI changes have to do with FSD? I literally can't think of one thing that would somehow lend itself to better "Full Self Driving".

They homogenized the menus (and I find them harder to spot the buttons I'm looking for)... they destroyed the bottom bar... Messed with map controls, shrunk a handful of font sizes.

It's the same concept. All driver interaction with the car is bad. It was the implementation that failed for most users.

 

[father_of_6]

Umm... okay.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

what caused the crash? had to take my eyes off the road for 6 minutes trying to decipher the micro icons, slide my fingers in just the right place, squint to see any relevant information, and tap 476 times to defrost the dash. That's even before we get to the heated seats.

So, YES, this warrants investigation. The 12 year olds that made this on their phones 5" from their faces need put on timeout and the adults need to make things right.

 

[Raurele]

I'd be willing to bet that Autopilot will eventually morph into a subset of FSD, using its camera-based programming and features.

That’s the fabled “single stack V11” we are all waiting for.

 

[patmurphey]

That’s the fabled “single stack V11” we are all waiting for.

Actually "Single Stack" refers to FSD currently working fine "Navigate on Highways" being brought into the new "Navigate on City Streets" software stack.

 

[Boza]

V11 was an attempt to move the UI conceptually closer to cars that are equipped with FSD beta. I know that a lot of people here think that the UI change was Elon's doing or maybe even a few incompetent people on the software design team. I don't agree with this view. I believe that it was a consensus effort at Tesla from the top to bottom.

Unfortunately, most Tesla's don't have FSD and even less have FSD beta. If the UI change had been limited to FSD beta cars, there still would have been grousing and hand wringing, but impact on the total installed base would have been limited. FSD beta users know that they are Tesla's pet guinea pigs, so they probably would have first complained and then been happy with a few changes from the original V11 UI. Right now, no FSD beta cars have 2022.12.1, so those of us in the beta program will have to wait.

So what have we now with 2022.12.1? A few icons were put back on the top status bar. The user can now add more icons to the bottom task bar. A couple lost V10 functions returned. These changes were the most common ones that people asked for.

But the original V11 UI changes that are more in line with autonomous driving are still available as an option. Personally, the left stalk taps and the auto seat heaters will continue to be my choice. Besides, I rarely fool with the touchscreen while driving, except to select media and change the navigation route. To me, using the touchscreen is just a short hop from using your phone while driving.

I do have FSD (not beta - that is a whole different story) but leaving that aside - what is the link between FSD and seat warmers or defogger? I have not heard anyone talking about the FSD auto windshield defogging. Also, even with FSD engaged I am responsible for the car actions so I should be able to see the road. No, FSD is a red herring.

 

[Boza]

What did the UI changes have to do with FSD? I literally can't think of one thing that would somehow lend itself to better "Full Self Driving".

They homogenized the menus (and I find them harder to spot the buttons I'm looking for)... they destroyed the bottom bar... Messed with map controls, shrunk a handful of font sizes.

… and the functionality they “returned from V10” is actually worse than V10. How come turning on the windshield defogger does not actually turn it on?! Seriously, the whole UI design reminds me of Alice in Wonderland.

 

[Boza]

It's the same concept. All driver interaction with the car is bad. It was the implementation that failed for most users.

Yes, that is a failed concept, at least for now. As I mentioned before, they will be better off splitting the AI and EV, give EV to someone who knows how to grow manufacturing and let Elon take AI. That way he can concentrate on something he is passionate about and knows how to do. The rest of us will be able to enjoy our cars and have a normal service.

 

[astrobill]

All,

As I'd predicted, this topic really brought out the rabid, spittle-flecked-sounding FAN BOI comments! "WE LOVE ELON! ELON IS OUR GOD!!!"

(Aside: Elon didn't found Tesla...he wasn't even among the founders...he bought in later and sued them to call him a "founder"...LOL).

For now, I'll simply point out that in software release 2022.12, Tesla heard the LOUD and frequent complaints and restored the ability to add seat heater, window defrost, and wiper controls back to the screen without having to navigate into menus while driving in a blizzard.

Sooooo....seems as if Tesla agreed with me as well as the 75% of people in that one poll on this site who shared my view, no?

Come at me, FAN BOIs! ;^)

R,
Bill

 

[father_of_6]

All,

As I'd predicted, this topic really brought out the rabid, spittle-flecked-sounding FAN BOI comments! "WE LOVE ELON! ELON IS OUR GOD!!!"

(Aside: Elon didn't found Tesla...he wasn't even among the founders...he bought in later and sued them to call him a "founder"...LOL).

For now, I'll simply point out that in software release 2022.12, Tesla heard the LOUD and frequent complaints and restored the ability to add seat heater, window defrost, and wiper controls back to the screen without having to navigate into menus while driving in a blizzard.

Sooooo....seems as if Tesla agreed with me as well as the 75% of people in that one poll on this site who shared my view, no?

Come at me, FAN BOIs! ;^)

R,
Bill

So... you want arguing? LOL

I'm no fan of v11 either, but find it hard to believe that Elon is making every decision (he might dislike v11 as much as I do).

The founder argument is silly. Two guys start a business, realize they can't afford to make it happen, third guys jumps in 6 months later funding everything... and people want to argue about "founders" because of dates.

Pretty certain none of us would have Tesla vehicles if it weren't for Elon Musk... the company would've been dead long ago. He's a founder.

 

[Boza]

All,

As I'd predicted, this topic really brought out the rabid, spittle-flecked-sounding FAN BOI comments! "WE LOVE ELON! ELON IS OUR GOD!!!"

(Aside: Elon didn't found Tesla...he wasn't even among the founders...he bought in later and sued them to call him a "founder"...LOL).

For now, I'll simply point out that in software release 2022.12, Tesla heard the LOUD and frequent complaints and restored the ability to add seat heater, window defrost, and wiper controls back to the screen without having to navigate into menus while driving in a blizzard.

Sooooo....seems as if Tesla agreed with me as well as the 75% of people in that one poll on this site who shared my view, no?

Come at me, FAN BOIs! ;^)

R,
Bill

I would not use the word “restore” as it relates to 2022.12.1 and V10. The 2022.12.1 functionality is crippled compared to what we had in V10 (which was not the best UI by any means).

 

[Boza]

So... you want arguing? LOL

I'm no fan of v11 either, but find it hard to believe that Elon is making every decision (he might dislike v11 as much as I do).

The founder argument is silly. Two guys start a business, realize they can't afford to make it happen, third guys jumps in 6 months later funding everything... and people want to argue about "founders" because of dates.

Pretty certain none of us would have Tesla vehicles if it weren't for Elon Musk... the company would've been dead long ago. He's a founder.

I am immensely grateful to what Elon has done for Tesla, world and me. But maybe it is time for him to move on and focus on AI.

 

[Dr. J]

I am immensely grateful to what Elon has done for Tesla, world and me. But maybe it is time for him to move on and focus on AI.

Or Twitter. {snicker}