Do you think Tesla/M3 will change the auto industry? I'm concerned

[snakeopus121]

I'm not a Tesla owner (yet), and I've been critical in postings about Tesla's continuing issues with quality control, "tech innovations" ---- but hear me out please (and don't block my profile, we're all adults)

I read this article in the Wall Street Journal, and I think it is very telling of the general attitude of the car-buying community -- people still want big cars.

I'm frustrated with Tesla -- they blew their chance to change the automotive industry----This was their chance to sway public opinion with the "EV car for the masses"

The Model 3 "roll-out" has proven that Tesla has not learned from their mistakes -- every car that is sold has to go back to the service center --- 12V battery system, phantom braking at overpasses, defective windshields/back windows, stress cracking glass roof panels, cheap crap everywhere ---- not only that, Tesla added more headaches with the "phone-as-key" idea --- oh and no wifi too??

I know Tesla is younger than the automotive giants --- but that's a given if one chooses to play on that field

The Model S captured my fantasies when it came out -- but it was(and is) far too expensive for my lifestyle....but I became a Tesla "fanboy" and dreamed of the day I either could afford a Tesla or they built a car I could afford.....and I know many others here know how it felt when Elon announced the Model 3.....

I've been following the Model 3 roll-out extremely close --- again, as many of us here have done ---- and I have to say I'm not impressed.

This article in the Wall Street Journal, I think, exemplifies my sentiment.

It takes sacrifice to transition from ICE to an EV --- and Tesla was suppose to be slick and sexy enough to help people bridge that gap.....When you add the extra constant headaches of service center visits, MCU reboots, pre-mature tire wear, and lack of standard creature-comfort features like Android Auto/Carplay --- people are not going to do it.

I pretty much have given up on getting my Model 3 --- not only is Tesla not building the model I can afford --- I honestly do not have (or am willing to give) the extra time in my life to dealing with the crap.....

My current car is a life-tool I rely on everyday, and it enhances my life/time efficiency.....Why would I want to buy a car that adds drama/chaos/headaches?

Telsa has blown its extremely unique opportunity to sway public opinion

The Real Reason Ford Is Phasing Out Its Sedans

 

[ps004ynos]

Tl;dr “I’m a short”

 

[snakeopus121]

Tl;dr “I’m a short”

Not all Tesla fans are rich enough to invest to stocks --- don't get me wrong, I wish I had the lifestyle of LikeTelsa on youtube.....beautiful home, beautiful cars, beautiful wife

*edit* and to be fair --- is anything I stated not true? anyone who spends enough time in this forum knows the line: "...my car is at the service center for other minor issues"

 

[Xenoilphobe]

come drive my Model S, and you will have a different opinion. You have been reading too many pessimistic posts and it has polluted reality.

I'm on my third Model S and won't ever buy another gas car again. Also have an electric motorcycle (Zero FX - paid ~$6K for it) now and have a deposit on a Bollinger Motors SUV. Buy a used S and ignore all the BS posts on here about the issues, cry babies cry and folks that are happy don't say much or even monitor this website. My neighborhood now has over twenty Tesla's in less than 3 years and when I went to play golf today here in NOVA, there were 14 Model S's in the parking lot!!!!! I was totally shocked to see that many, the one getting all the attention was a blue Model 3 - it was gorgeous and I was a bit jealous that the owner paid half what I paid for mine. Its an awesome car and you should grab a used one as soon as you can, if they are currently outside you budget, wait and get a used one.

If you want to drive an S, let me know -- PM me... you will love this car even if you get a lightly used one. (my current car is a used Model S and it rocks...) former P85 owner with 50,000 on it, wife has a 90D with 20,000 on it and my current P85+ has over 70,000 on it. We have been to the service center in along time, the last visit I got was to replace the power cable on my HPWC ($zero) and they came to my house and did it.
What's your budget, guarantee we can find you a nice used Model S in the next couple of months for under $40K...Hell I sold my 2013 P85 for $55K over a year ago..

 

[seattlite2004]

IMHO...nope. But batteries and electric motors will. I think LG, Samsung, Panasonic, Intel and Google, will have more iof an mpact on the auto industry than Tesla.

Drive an EV...any EV...and you'll be hooked. Great lower priced EVs with great deals out there.

 

[snakeopus121]

come drive my Model S, and you will have a different opinion. You have been reading too many pessimistic posts and it has polluted reality.

If you want to drive an S, let me know -- PM me... you will love this car even if you get a lightly used one. (my current car is a used Model S and it rocks...) former P85 owner with 50,000 on it, wife has a 90D with 20,000 on it and my current P85+ has over 70,000 on it. We have been to the service center in along time, the last visit I got was to replace the power cable on my HPWC ($zero) and they came to my house and did it.
What's your budget, guarantee we can find you a nice used Model S in the next couple of months for under $40K...Hell I sold my 2013 P85 for $55K over a year ago..

I may take you up on that offer my friend......I appreciate you not flaming me....I've always been a Honda Civic guy on a limited budget --- I totally depend on my car....

Again thank you for not flaming me

 

[EinSV]

Last year, Model S was highest rated in its class for reliability by Consumer Reports (look it up). And Tesla has stated on multiple occasions that "Model 3 is already the highest quality vehicle we have ever produced ...." http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...1-495ED74E4194/TSLA_Update_Letter_2018-1Q.pdf

So your post is totally misinformed. Or FUD.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Minor issues can be anything from: my car won't get the updated free Navigation maps, to the TPMS sensors acting funky. At least when I got the the Tesla SC, they aren't trying to raid my wallet for an air change, oil change, filter change, etc etc.

We had a brake recall on the 90D, they came to my wife's work and did it, she didn't even know until I told here they had done it...

You need to turn off the MSM and get out and talk to a couple of owners. I'm not saying Tesla is issue free, but no car manufacturer is. I know guys who had buy backs by Tesla (early Model X), and they turned around and bought another Tesla --- that says a lot about the car and the car company.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I may take you up on that offer my friend......I appreciate you not flaming me....I've always been a Honda Civic guy on a limited budget --- I totally depend on my car....

Again thank you for not flaming me

I actually understand - I couldn't afford these cars either, until I hit the "layoff lottery". Was overjoyed to leave a crappy company, get paid out and have excess cash to pick up one of these cars.

Offer stands my friend. Be patient, you will get there and when you do, you will be happy you waited for the right time / deal.... that's what I did.

Also don't let these guys on here get you down, most of us are old crusty guys who are probably double your age and it took us a long time to get to point in our life where we would get a Tesla.

 

[steven415]

"Wow, I want one too"

Said by everyone I given rides too.

 

[seattlite2004]

Last year, Model S was highest rated in its class for reliability by Consumer Reports (look it up). And Tesla has stated on multiple occasions that "Model 3 is already the highest quality vehicle we have ever produced ...." http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...1-495ED74E4194/TSLA_Update_Letter_2018-1Q.pdf

So your post is totally misinformed. Or FUD.

I also found this:

Tesla Model S Owners Report Improved Reliability​

Tesla Model S owners reported their car’s reliability has improved in Consumer Reports' latest survey, giving the EV sedan its first above-average rating.

Because of the Model S’s improved rating, the all-new Tesla Model 3 EV predicted reliability rating also has improved, rising to average in CR's rankings. That's because Tesla’s less expensive Model 3 borrows much of its technology from its bigger brother.

Consumer Reports doesn't have data yet specifically from Model 3 owners, but it makes predictions on every new and redesigned vehicle based on the manufacturer's history and data from vehicles that share major components. Along the same vein, the new Kia Stinger sports sedan also gets a prediction of average reliability, even though Stinger owners have not yet reported their experiences back to CR in any survey.

“Electric vehicles are inherently less complicated than gasoline- or hybrid-powered alternatives, and the Model 3 should be the least complicated Tesla yet,” said Jake Fisher, director of auto testing at CR. “After digging into the data reported by more than 1,500 Tesla Model S owners, we expect the Model 3 should have average reliability. However, since the Model 3 is a new model, we don't expect the above average reliability we are seeing on the Model S.”

The Tesla Model S reliability was average when CR first reported on it in 2014.

Although the Model S has been at or near the top of its segment in its Overall Score, the Model X SUV has suffered from below average reliability scores from its owners. The reason that shouldn't hurt the Model 3, Fisher said, is that the Model X’s problems stem from specific parts that won't be found on the Model 3.

“Owners report issues with the Model X’s falcon doors, electronic front doors, large windshield glass, and other hardware issues,” Fisher said, “but not with its powertrain." CEO Elon Musk has even gone out of his way to say on Twitter that Tesla looked for ways to reduce complexity with the Model 3, and that approach may have paid off.
......
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[garrity]

There's a reason why 400K plus put down a deposit for a car 2 years ago and are still waiting. Most people who driven an EV know what to expect from a Tesla. I'm also frustrated by Tesla's delays and poor early productions. I got my model 3 recently and couldn't be happier. Same goes for my brother,

As for changing the auto industry. There's a reason why the Germans are showing Elon's image at their meetings and naming little Tesla as a threat to their company.

 

[strykeroz]

The article is specifically talking about Ford, who also locally (Australia) have retreated in car sales and have one SUV model (Ford Ranger) which represents 60% of their sales according to the latest VFACTS (March data here). Ford used to be one of our big two car makers but lost out in that segment both to share moving to SUVs and Toyota mostly, before Ranger came along. Ford does little in passenger vehicles here now compared what they used to.

It seems to make sense that Ford should focus more US manufacturing to SUV if that's where their wins are coming from. As read it, Ford dropping sedans is not a surprise. If you told me Toyota (who have success in that category with Camry) were dropping sedans I'd see that as a different matter. Again, according to VFACTS SUVs do dominate here too, but it's not by a huge margin (43% versus 34%) so passenger vehicles still are a sizeable target market if you have a product.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

There is such a dearth of electric vehicles that it doesn't really matter if Tesla builds the exact car for the moment.

It certainly isn't hindering the sales of the Model 3, and they'll have a Model Y before demand diminishes.

I am bummed that they won't have a Cargo Van or pickup for quite some time. Instead they decided to make a Semi as if there wasn't enough Electric Semi options in development.

I would have preferred if they covered expensive vehicles before coming out with the three. Rich people, and companies buying cargo vehicles can more readily deal with the growing pains of a new company than hundreds of thousands normal folks.

It won't stop me from trading in my Model S in on a 3 though. If people want to feel connected to the road they don't buy crossovers, and they certainly don't buy a Ford. So I'm not too surprised Ford got out of it with exception to the Mustang.

If BMW stops making the three series then I'll accept defeat of the car.

 

[snakeopus121]

Minor issues can be anything from: my car won't get the updated free Navigation maps, to the TPMS sensors acting funky. At least when I got the the Tesla SC, they aren't trying to raid my wallet for an air change, oil change, filter change, etc etc.

We had a brake recall on the 90D, they came to my wife's work and did it, she didn't even know until I told here they had done it...

You need to turn off the MSM and get out and talk to a couple of owners. I'm not saying Tesla is issue free, but no car manufacturer is. I know guys who had buy backs by Tesla (early Model X), and they turned around and bought another Tesla --- that says a lot about the car and the car company.

I've been following Tesla long enough to filter what I read to a certain degree --- I know there are passionate supporters as well as folks like "whompy wheels" at the other end of the spectrum.

I do know there's something special about Tesla cars --- there are a lot here in NOVA --- however I recently traveled to Hong Kong and noticed there sooooo many more there.

Never have sat in one..

 

[jamnmon66]

FWIW, it's always easy to find the bad stuff if that's what you look for, especially online. It seem like it could literally be raining gold and all you would find online is complaining about the mess. I agree with Xenoilphobe that it seems to have skewed your opinion into a polluted reality. Please report back if you take him up on his offer. I'd be interested to hear if your opinion has changed.

 

[Zaxxon]

never have sat in one..

I've discovered your issue!

Seriously, take the man up on the offer to go for a ride! You really do have to experience a Tesla to 'get it.'

That's not to say that Tesla doesn't have its obstacles to overcome. But to answer your original topic question: they've already changed the auto industry.

 

[Runt8]

*edit* and to be fair --- is anything I stated not true? anyone who spends enough time in this forum knows the line: "...my car is at the service center for other minor issues"

You have no idea what percentage of new Model 3s need to go in for service - I guarantee it’s not “every car that is sold.” If you spend enough time on any forum you will come away with the impression that product X is horribly unreliable. I personally think that this forum has an unusually high number of posts from people saying that their Model 3 hasn’t had any problems whatsoever.

 

[Dr. J]

The Real Reason Ford Is Phasing Out Its Sedans

It's behind the paywall, so I didn't find out the Real Reason (nor the Weird Trick), but it's not news that people are buying more trucks than cars--it happens every time the price of gas goes down and stays down for a few years, on top of a slower secular trend toward trucks/SUVs. My guess is that Ford is being shortsighted, but hey, if they want to be a truckmaker, more power to them. That's not the business that Tesla is in, yet. I think the comparison between Ford and Tesla misses the mark. But then, you started with FUD, FUD, FUD, more FUD. so that is not surprising. {shrug}

 

[TT97]

If you google "The Real Reason Ford Is Phasing Out Its Sedans - WSJ," it will let you follow the link without being behind the paywall (not sure why and your results may be different).

I'm not sure why you linked that article as an argument against Tesla. The article bashes Ford's decision to stop selling sedans and pushing SUVs taking advantage of loopholes in CAFE. "Automakers always say they just aim to give the customer what they want, but they never mention the billions in advertising and marketing spent convincing customers what they want." Ford is just pushing SUV and Trucks as they have higher profit margins than their cars.

I'm glad Tesla is trying to change the automotive industry and not following Ford by just offering larger and larger vehicles.