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Does 0 to 60 really matter? What about 55 to 75?

Petrocelli

Member
Aug 11, 2019
380
395
Los Angeles
It is undisputed that a Model 3 performance can beat pretty much any car off the line.

I don't know about you, but I don't ever accelerate fast off the line. (Maybe if I had a Model3 Performance I would.) Generally, I find that most of my acceleration is going from about 55 to 75 or 80 to pass a car in the fast lane. Does the Model 3 Performance beat ICE vehicle at this speed?
 

z06tim

Member
Sep 10, 2019
95
69
Maryland
I feel like down low my model 3 performance would take my previous ICE cars but from a roll I am not so sure. I have had some pretty fast ones though. I think my VW Golf R I just traded in that was a stage 2 would have taken the model 3 from a roll. I also have had some corvettes and mustangs which I think would give it a good run from a roll.
 

PhaseWhite

Member
Aug 12, 2017
863
2,335
Minneapolis,MN
I feel like down low my model 3 performance would take my previous ICE cars but from a roll I am not so sure. I have had some pretty fast ones though. I think my VW Golf R I just traded in that was a stage 2 would have taken the model 3 from a roll. I also have had some corvettes and mustangs which I think would give it a good run from a roll.

From a roll usually means planning ahead for the right gear and speeds exceeding hand cuff rates.

For 55-75 the P3D will do that with super car performance and the other car will barely be in the right gear before a car length or 2 are put on
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Jul 12, 2017
5,543
10,245
Springfield, VA
My non-performance dual motor Model 3 will take a tuned Audi RS3 (5 cylinder turbo, ~500 HP) from just about any speed. The only thing the Audi has over the non-performance dual motor is the launch and only when launch control is used, but the performance Model 3 should be even on the launch.
 
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OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,759
4,111
Southern California
I’m reminded of how fast my Tesla is every time I’m at a red light with an ICE vehicle in front of me. Maybe they are capable of going faster but they seem to take forever to get going after the light turns green. When I’m the first one at the light I leave everyone in the dust (unless there is another Tesla in the lane with me). And I’m not even trying hard.
 

MagnusMako

Member
Jan 29, 2019
798
1,395
Austin, TX
My LR AWD has no problems from a roll with 98% of cars. There's a few modded mustangs and muscle cars out there that will walk me at highway speed but they are few and far between. Part of the problem with the lack of grunt up top is that our cars are a 1 speed. If maybe they added another gear like Porsche has done with the Taycan then it would be full steam ahead on the top end as well but they probably don't want to do that to keep the cost down. I will say though, Plaid mode on the Model 3 with three motors would be absolutely golden. It's too bad Elon has already shot that down though. Pretty sure he wants to prevent the 3 from cannibalizing future Model S sales. To be honest though, I think both could exist but we will see how things play out in the next 3-5 years.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,296
6,861
Canyon Lake,CA
55-75 is a perfect example of the superiority of EV over ICE.

In a gasser, cruising at 55 will usually have the car lugging around in top gear, turning relatively few revs to optimize fuel economy. Pressing on the accelerator usually just results in a bog or a downshift.

When suddenly called upon to make a pass the pedal is pressed to the floor, the electronice determine that the driver wants to accelerate and will call for multiple downshifts like from 8th gear down to 3rd. The transmission will make those shifts and the engine will be accelerated to higher revs to effect the torque multiplication necessary to move the heavy car as fast as possible.

The higher revs will cause the turbos to also engage and speed up to maximize torque. (for naturally aspirated gassers, this step will be eliminated). The boost will build and the revs will rise until maximum safe revs are attained.

The car will then pause, shift up to the next gear, and torque will then be re-engaged to provide addition thrust as it again moves up into the more powerful area of the revs.

This adds tremendous shock and strain to the drive train. The tires may break loose on the shifts if the road is wet or slick.

After the pass is finished, things will once again quiet down as the transmission once again shifts into top gear to reduce engine wear and increase fuel consumption. All this output varies considerably depending on elevation and air density.

At full throttle and full revs, maximimum wear and damage is done to an ICE. The temperatures are at maximum and all drive line components are at maximum stress.


For an EV it is exquisite simplicity. The electric motors already have the driveline torque loaded and flooring the pedal simply adds the maximum torque available to the drive wheels. No shock, jolt, shifting or massive differentials of torque load. The car simply accelerates forward at the maximum torque that the batteries and motors can provide.

Little overt drama, but the driver has constant control of throttle, and the computer adjusts for any traction issues in a smooth and efficient manner. In an ICE the driver is committed to full throttle. Lifting just a little will cause a upshift and maximum acceleration will be lost. Hard to modulate between 80% thrust and 100% thrust.

For most drivers, the EV will give a far safer and better controlled passing event than the jerky gasser. The driver maintains precise torque application with his foot and can stay at max or cut to anything else at any point in the pass.

As speeds go up, the benefits will switch over to the multi speed transmission of an ICE. Believe this is one of the reasons that Taycan has been engineered with two gears. This will allow better performance on the unlimited speed of the Autobahn and Autostrata.

But to answer the OP, in most cases, the 55-75 passing events will still be more easily accomplished in the EV.

A side benefit is that the pass can be made without triggering anxiety to all the passengers, annoying the Wife and waking the baby :(. Passengers will most likely not even look up from their cell phone screens.

Model 3 performance will accomplish this maneouver better than most other similarly priced 4 door sedans.
 

afadeev

Member
Feb 28, 2019
694
629
NYC
I don't know about you, but I don't ever accelerate fast off the line. (Maybe if I had a Model3 Performance I would.) Generally, I find that most of my acceleration is going from about 55 to 75 or 80 to pass a car in the fast lane. Does the Model 3 Performance beat ICE vehicle at this speed?

It beats some, but way fewer than at 0-60 race.

Part of the challenge is EV motor torque drop off with higher RPMs due to back-EMF.
A way to compensate for that is to introduce a transmission that would keep the electric motor at optimum RPM range, but Tesla could not keep it from spontaneously disassembling in a Roadster, and abandoned that approach with Model S and 3. Porsche seams to have found a way to do it with Taycan.

55-75 is a perfect example of the superiority of EV over ICE.

Someone forgot to tell it to these guys who ran 85D vs. ///M4 and RS7.
BTW, 85D has the same 0-60 as TM3P, but I am not sure about the torque drop off at higher revs (definitely present in TM3P):





When suddenly called upon to make a pass the pedal is pressed to the floor, the electronice determine that the driver wants to accelerate and will call for multiple downshifts like from 8th gear down to 3rd. The transmission will make those shifts and the engine will be accelerated to higher revs to effect the torque multiplication necessary to move the heavy car as fast as possible.
The higher revs will cause the turbos to also engage and speed up to maximize torque. (for naturally aspirated gassers, this step will be eliminated). The boost will build and the revs will rise until maximum safe revs are attained.
The car will then pause, shift up to the next gear, and torque will then be re-engaged to provide addition thrust as it again moves up into the more powerful area of the revs.

You really have NO CLUE how modern DCTs work, do you?
:rolleyes:
 
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axhoaxho

Member
Sep 11, 2019
167
206
San Francisco Bay Area
Tiff did an acceleration test from 50mph (5:30 into the video.) They were using a Model S P100D and a Mercedes AMG GT63, yet it was interesting that..... while the Mercedes was kicking down the transmission, the Tesla accelerated with instant torque delivery.

 

Krash

Data Technician
Apr 18, 2017
1,919
2,094
Intermountain US
Starting from zero, Tesla cars have a torque limited range, a power limited range and a Back EMF limited range. On the model S, the power limited range is pretty broad. On the model 3 you go from torque limited to back EMF limited pretty quickly because the motors are designed to be lighter, smaller and more efficient with much less headroom for power.

55-75 is probably all in that back EMF limited range. I think you would be surprised on these drag races that if you line the cars back up at 55 mph, the transmissions in ICE cars make them pretty competitive.
 

DrSmile

Member
Nov 7, 2018
227
138
Northern NJ
The key advantage a Tesla has is consistency of acceleration. No bogging, no single or dual tire slip, no missed shifts, no lack of turbo spool. Even with launch control many ICE cars don't consistently launch well. The lack of gearbox does mean the illegal speed range acceleration isn't supercar level, but as Top Gear shows it's only an issue at way over 100mph.


I also remember reading that the front and rear motors are geared differently, making one more efficient at lower speeds and one at higher speeds, which mitigates the no transmission issue.
 
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XLR82XS

D M C
Jul 26, 2019
3,141
1,794
SWFL | Vegas
Easily. It will beat 98.732% of vehicles up through 110 mph or so.

Well, that's my unscientific opinion anyway, but it's probably pretty close to truth.
I guess my Panamera is not in that 98.732%. My LR 3 will not out accelerate it to 110mph. Anyone with a Performance in S.FL want to race?
 

Mo City

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
1,910
11,671
near Houston
My dual motor Model 3 nukes pretty much every other vehicle on the highway. With no downshift necessary, I'm past them almost before they can react.

In particular, I've lost count of how many ticked off pickup trucks I've blown past when they are determined not to be passed. They hate viewing the rear of a Tesla.
 

Tummy

Member
Dec 25, 2016
224
279
Atlanta
I guess my Panamera is not in that 98.732%. My LR 3 will not out accelerate it to 110mph. Anyone with a Performance in S.FL want to race?
There were only 6,188 Panamera sold in the US in 2011, which makes it less than 1/2 of 1% of all cars sold that year. Also of those, the Turbo accounted for about 1/3 of the sales. So it’s not in that 98.732%.
 
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