Does buying FSD include robotaxi (when it becomes capable)?

[lcoreyl]

***I realize there are tons of arguments about WHEN tesla will achieve robotaxi. Not looking to re-hash that here. For the sake of argument lets assume they solve it within 5 years.***

I’ve never seen a definitive answer from Tesla on this. Does anyone who purchased FSD gone through all the terms & conditions to see if robotaxi is mentioned? They do say this includes improvements via SW update, so is the improvement to L4 or L5 included in that statement? I assume that the current FSD price is probably too low unless Tesla gets their robotaxi money as a split of revenue, but on the other hand it seems high to not include it.
I want a cheaper base level cybertruck so I feel like im a solid 3-5 years for that. Due to price cuts and tax incentives a 36k Y is interesting. However, selling the Y in 3-5 years seems like I would NOT get good value since they keep improving and lowering prices. IF i can keep it indefinitely as a robotaxi that would be a no brainer, but at this point I have NO clue what that cost would be.

 

[alhounos]

Nobody knows how or when or if Robotaxi will work. The only safe thing to assume about using your car as a Robotaxi is that you won't be able to.

 

[BitJam]

Tesla talked about robotaxis back in 2016. They implied you will need to pay Tesla if you use your car as a robotaxi. More details were to be released in 2017.

Autopilot

All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.

web.archive.org

The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. ​

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All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. [...] Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, [...]. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.​

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Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.​

 

[diplomat33]

***I realize there are tons of arguments about WHEN tesla will achieve robotaxi. Not looking to re-hash that here. For the sake of argument lets assume they solve it within 5 years.***

I’ve never seen a definitive answer from Tesla on this. Does anyone who purchased FSD gone through all the terms & conditions to see if robotaxi is mentioned? They do say this includes improvements via SW update, so is the improvement to L4 or L5 included in that statement? I assume that the current FSD price is probably too low unless Tesla gets their robotaxi money as a split of revenue, but on the other hand it seems high to not include it.
I want a cheaper base level cybertruck so I feel like im a solid 3-5 years for that. Due to price cuts and tax incentives a 36k Y is interesting. However, selling the Y in 3-5 years seems like I would NOT get good value since they keep improving and lowering prices. IF i can keep it indefinitely as a robotaxi that would be a no brainer, but at this point I have NO clue what that cost would be.

The short answer is "no". Certainly, don't count on it. I always say, buy a Tesla if you want the car, but don't buy a Tesla, hoping that it will be a robotaxi. There is no guarantee that Tesla will ever do robotaxis.

But even if we go with your assumption that Tesla achieves L4/L5, there are several issues:

1) Regulatory

A true robotaxi (no human driver in the car) would require regulatory approval in certain States like CA. For example, in CA, Tesla would need to get a bunch of permits, which take years, before they could deploy a robotaxi that makes money. If Tesla does not get those permits, you would not be able to use your Tesla as a robotaxi, even if it was capable of L4/L5.

2) Hardware

I think Elon has said that there will be no upgrade from HW3 to HW4. And we don't know what hardware will be required for robotaxi. Even if we go with your assumption that Tesla achieves L4/L5 in 5 years, it could be on some future hardware like HW5. Tesla has not promised that you will get that hardware.

3) Robotaxi Network

To function as a robotaxi, Tesla would need to release a ride-hailing app. Elon teased some mock ups a few years back during Autonomy Day but there has been no news on the app since AFAIK. We don't even know if Tesla is still working on a ride-hailing app or even if the app even exists. The images during Autonomy Day were likely just concept art and not proof of anything real. You could sign up for the Uber or Lyft app and use their ride-hailing network. But going back to #1, if Tesla does not get permission to remove the driver, then at best you could do Uber or Lyft ride-hailing with you still in the driver seat but the car drives. But you would still need to sit in the driver's seat so it would not be a real (driverless) robotaxi.

Elon has also teased a dedicated robotaxi vehicle but so far, I don't think we've even seen images of it. It is total vaporware at this point. Tesla would still need to design this robotaxi vehicle, test it, produce it, etc...

Frankly, I think robotaxis is just something Elon says to sell the "FSD" package to Tesla owners. It has been a clever selling point that "your Tesla will make you money as a robotaxi". At this point, it is a scam. I say that because Tesla has not done any of the work to actually do robotaxis. They don't have L4/L5. They don't have a robotaxi vehicle. They don't a ride-hailing app. They don't have any permits to even test a robotaxi or any of the permits to deploy a commercial robotaxi. Even if Tesla achieves L4/L5, they still need to do a lot of validation to make sure it is safe and reliable. There is also the matter of being able to handle pick ups and drop offs reliably without human intervention. Tesla has done nothing on that. And they don't have any remote assistance that you need in order to assist a driverless robotaxi that gets stuck. Without remote assistance or road side assistance, you would need to stay in the car at all times in order to assist the car if it gets stuck or has a flat tire or something.

 

[EVNow]

I assume that the current FSD price is probably too low unless Tesla gets their robotaxi money as a split of revenue, but on the other hand it seems high to not include it.
I want a cheaper base level cybertruck so I feel like im a solid 3-5 years for that. Due to price cuts and tax incentives a 36k Y is interesting. However, selling the Y in 3-5 years seems like I would NOT get good value since they keep improving and lowering prices. IF i can keep it indefinitely as a robotaxi that would be a no brainer, but at this point I have NO clue what that cost would be.

If and when Robotaxi becomes available, Tesla will definitely charge a lot more or more likely make it mainly subscription based (or both!).

Y prices will not keep going down - once the next gen vehicles are available, it might even go up.

The obvious answer to your overall question - do not base your purchase decision on robotaxi.

 

[golfpilot]

No, FSD is all the Enhanced autopilot features + automatic stop light/signs and eventually driving on city streets. It ends there

 

[Supcom]

Robotaxi terms and conditions should be part of a robotaxi service contract, assuming one ever comes about. Including this in a purchase decision would be extremely risky, as Tesla may never implement robotaxis. Or, if they do, it may be at a point beyond your car's service life.

 

[kabin]

Elon hinted some of his delusional ideas about the robotaxis service arrangement and it sounded like he hopes to take a pound of flesh from anyone interested in signing up for it. I recall him saying Tesla's fees would be something like 30% to 50% of a robotaxis provider's income. Huge monies upfront plus all of that. Such a deal!

 

[EVRider-FL]

Assuming the car is capable of full autonomy, I don’t think Tesla can prevent you from making your car available as a “robotaxi” on your own (if it’s otherwise legal to do so), but using Tesla’s robotaxi network (if it ever happens) will cost you.

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm not sure where everyone is getting these definitive "no" answers from, because AFAIK, there really isn't much of any explicit statements.

But it is anticipated that FSD will include all of the capabilities, such as unattended movement. And Elon has raised the price of FSD explicitly because of the promise that the car will be much more valuable as a Robotaxi.

 

[kabin]

Assuming the car is capable of full autonomy, I don’t think Tesla can prevent you from making your car available as a “robotaxi” on your own (if it’s otherwise legal to do so), but using Tesla’s robotaxi network (if it ever happens) will cost you.

I recall Elon saying the contract was already written. If so then one would agree to terms by downloading the software.

I often wondered if and when Tesla/Elon acknowledge as well as responds to the guy in SD getting paid to give Lyft rides. Although not a robotaxis service he often overstates FSD capabilities to customers and viewers. He might be taking some pretty large risks with all the videos he puts up for viewing should there be a bad outcome. Also gotta wonder if his insurer is on board with his humble secondary FSDj vlogger income and more importantly driving distractions. He's had some colorful videos blaming drivers for FSD shortcomings.

 

[BitJam]

I'm not sure where everyone is getting these definitive "no" answers from, because AFAIK, there really isn't much of any explicit statements.

Some of us are getting it from the Tesla website circa 2016. I linked to it above and I will quote it again:

Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.​

I don't know if this is enforceable but it seems clear and explicit. I imagine some Tesla lawyers reviewed the text before it was published.

 

[ewoodrick]

Some of us are getting it from the Tesla website circa 2016. I linked to it above and I will quote it again:

Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.​

I don't know if this is enforceable but it seems clear and explicit. I imagine some Tesla lawyers reviewed the text before it was published.

And where does that say that it will cost more? Or that it will not be available?

That seems to me to say that it will be included and probably free.

 

[BitJam]

And where does that say that it [robotaxi ability I presume] will cost more? Or that it will not be available?

That seems to me to say that it will be included and probably free.

It seems perfectly clear (to me) when they say car sharing and ride hailing are fine for friends and family but if you do it for revenue purposes you will have to be part of the Tesla Network, they mean you will have to pay Tesla a piece of the action. The sentence makes no sense without this interpretation. If they meant what you infer then they would have left it out entirely or said something like:

[...] using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, you can even use it for revenue purposes with no further charges from us!​

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I hope we agree It's clear they're saying you have to join the Tesla Network to use your Tesla as a robotaxi. I cannot fathom how someone would think Tesla plans to make no money from private cars that join their robotaxi network given what they said above.

 

[Supcom]

It seems perfectly clear (to me) when they say car sharing and ride hailing are fine for friends and family but if you do it for revenue purposes you will have to be part of the Tesla Network, they mean you will have to pay Tesla a piece of the action. The sentence makes no sense without this interpretation. If they meant what you infer then they would have left it out entirely or said something like:

[...] using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, you can even use it for revenue purposes with no further charges from us!​

​

I hope we agree It's clear they're saying you have to join the Tesla Network to use your Tesla as a robotaxi. I cannot fathom how someone would think Tesla plans to make no money from private cars that join their robotaxi network given what they said above.

Assuming that Tesla does end up creating a taxi service for their cars, owners will almost certainly pay a percentage of each fare to Tesla. However, Tesla could decide that building and maintaining a ride hailing system from scratch is not the best use of their talents. They could choose, instead, to work with other raid hailing companies (uber & lyft) to develop an API that would allow Tesla cars to be tasked by these services, as the owners choose to participate. In exchange for use of the API, Tesla could collect a fee per ride, or a percentage of the fare from the ride hailing company. This would provide a revenue stream to Tesla as well as allowing them to focus on the vehicle operations as opposed to building a full ride hailing service.

I would not be surprised to see Waymo and Cruise go the same route. Uber and Lyft already have a global infrastructure in place. They just need an interface to task the vehicles instead of the drivers.