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Many posts here show a serious lack of understanding of how corporate finance works. It’s not like going to your credit union to get a loan to buy out Vinnie’s Pizzeria

When a company decides it wants to acquire a publicly listed company, it does so my acquiring *all* outstanding shares, not 51%. At 51% you will gain control of the board, but you don't own the company. It is still publicly listed.

None of the numbers listed in the table above mean anything in this process. The market capitalization of a public company is the value of all its outstanding shares. This is (at least) what an acquirer will have to pay in order to buy the company. As of market close Friday, Tesla’s market cap was 52 bn and GM was 59 bn, so GM is not worth significantly more than Tesla in the only measure that counts. BTW, Ford and Fiat Chrysler are in the low 40s. Yes, they are worth less than Tesla.

Now let’s say Company XYZ decides it wants to acquire Tesla. In fact, it will need more than 52 bn because shareholders will expect a premium to give up their Tesla stock. After all, they own it because they expect it to outperform the market, otherwise they’d have that money in an index fund.

Where does XYZ get 50+ bn? One thing they do not do is walk into their friendly investment bank and get a loan. No investment bank has that kind of liquid assets sitting around…they put money to work earning a return. What the investment bank does is arrange for XYZ to raise the money in the capital markets.

There are two options: issue stock and issue bonds. Issuing stock seems like the easy way to go but an issue of this size dilutes the ownership of existing shareholders and will likley cause the stock price to fall. And if XYZ pays dividends, it will have to pay dividends on the new shares. The corporate version of taking a loan is issuing bonds. There is no such thing as "getting loan for the amount of your profits. " The bond market looks at the proposed issue in the context of XYZ’s financials, determines the risk of getting their money back and sets the interest rate as a spread off US Treasuries.

A hostile takeover is not frowned upon by anyone other than the company being acquired. It has no bearing on whether the acquirer will get financing in the future. It does mean that the premium to current share price will be higher, especially if insiders own a significant portion of the target

There is no way that any of the Big 3 automakers could raise anything close to the amount of money necessary to acquire Tesla but Apple could pay with cash. If you want a lesson in how things can go wrong, check what happened when the ego manic who ran Porsche tried to acquire Volkswagen. Spoiler alert: he miscalculated and was taken over instead.

But all this misses the most important point. If Elon and the other insiders don’t want to be acquired and XYZ persists, Elon will simply walk from the company and many employees will follow. Like it or not, Tesla is Elon Musk, both in the public eye and in the eyes of the employees. So XYZ is left with the assets of Tesla and all its debt but not the people who made it. Pyrrhic victory.

And if Tesla fails imminently as some here insist, who would pay anything for what's left? If you were smart enough to cancel your model 3 order, you could use your refund to buy the assets.

Oh yeah....I've worked on Wall Street for 30 years.

Finally somebody who knows what they’re talking about. Refreshing, nice post. The only thing I’d add is that TSLA stock has more than doubled in the last 2 years. If they don’t start pumping model 3’s out investors may start to lose confidence in Elon and his plans and dump the stock sending it and the $50B valuation down with it.
 
Finally somebody who knows what they’re talking about. Refreshing, nice post. The only thing I’d add is that TSLA stock has more than doubled in the last 2 years. If they don’t start pumping model 3’s out investors may start to lose confidence in Elon and his plans and dump the stock sending it and the $50B valuation down with it.
What? Now that makes no sense.

Ask a real TSLA shareholder why they are holding that stock.

Tesla stock is doubling over and over as s NON profit making company. IMO they don't have to sell a mass amount of Model 3's at all. The stock price is devoid of the companies earnings. The stock is moving on sentiment. You guys are talking about the past and how things used to work in a nice neat wall street built on earnings and profits.

We have companies netting billions of dollars in profit and their stocks going down and a company like Tesla generating losses every quarter for the past 6 years doubling their stock price. Really?

Question: Where did the current confidence in TSLA come from? It hasn't been earnings. It hasn't been quarterly statements. I agree confidence is alive and strong, but from where? Model S? Model X? Solar panels?

One can't put TSLA in the same simple framework as GM nor any other car company, because TESLA is selling more than cars. Its ingenious what they are doing.

Tesla is selling "an experience" and they are winning.

They are selling the 0-60 experience. and people want it.
They are selling the ability to not go to the gas station and give them your money. and people want it.
They are selling a clean environment. and people want it.
They are selling "not having to drive" ( autopilot ). and people want it.
They are selling the ability to go anywhere without the worry of finding somewhere to charge. Tesla eliminated range anxiety.
They make sure that even a 7 year old car gets the latest updates and improvements. not just new ones. Driving Consumer confidence.

The experience is selling --- because very few other "car companies" are selling the same thing.

The Tesla is more than a car. Its an experience: A non tangible item is driving confidence for the TSLA stock symbol.
Chevy built an EV called the bolt....but its not accompanied by an experience. The bolt is just an EV car.


Tesla is knocking the ball out of the park on things they don't promise. That's why I'm not canceling my reservation as the thread title states.
Its their missed promises that are causing me to wonder.......WHAT are you doing?

BTW... if you control the board of a company....you control the company. - Dallas Mavericks owner ( all he does is 51% controlling interest buyouts ).
 
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What? Now that makes no sense.

Ask a real TSLA shareholder why they are holding that stock.

Tesla stock is doubling over and over as s NON profit making company. IMO they don't have to sell a mass amount of Model 3's at all. The stock price is devoid of the companies earnings. The stock is moving on sentiment. You guys are talking about the past and how things used to work in a nice neat wall street built on earnings and profits.

We have companies netting billions of dollars in profit and their stocks going down and a company like Tesla generating losses every quarter for the past 6 years doubling their stock price. Really?

Question: Where did the current confidence in TSLA come from? It hasn't been earnings. It hasn't been quarterly statements. I agree confidence is alive and strong, but from where? Model S? Model X? Solar panels?

One can't put TSLA in the same simple framework as GM nor any other car company, because TESLA is selling more than cars. Its ingenious what they are doing.

Tesla is selling "an experience" and they are winning.

They are selling the 0-60 experience. and people want it.
They are selling the ability to not go to the gas station and give them your money. and people want it.
They are selling a clean environment. and people want it.
They are selling "not having to drive" ( autopilot ). and people want it.
They are selling the ability to go anywhere without the worry of finding somewhere to charge. Tesla eliminated range anxiety.
They make sure that even a 7 year old car gets the latest updates and improvements. not just new ones. Driving Consumer confidence.

The experience is selling --- because very few other "car companies" are selling the same thing.

The Tesla is more than a car. Its an experience: A non tangible item is driving confidence for the TSLA stock symbol.
Chevy built an EV called the bolt....but its not accompanied by an experience. The bolt is just an EV car.


Tesla is knocking the ball out of the park on things they don't promise. That's why I'm not canceling my reservation as the thread title states.
Its their missed promises that are causing me to wonder.......WHAT are you doing?

BTW... if you control the board of a company....you control the company. - Dallas Mavericks owner ( all he does is 51% controlling interest buyouts ).
I’m a believer like you in the dream Tesla and Elon have envisioned but one has to be nervous. If they keep missing production schedules which allows other auto makers to catch up... I mean Tesla has a significant head start but still. If your company has never made a profit and say Toyota comes along saying how they’re serioisly getting into the EV market with a super charger network, etc investors with real money could dump Tesla and go somewhere else. Hope it never happens I’m just saying
 
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Lastly....Elon Musk isn't Tesla...<snip>
Public perception tends to disagree with you. Pull any Joe Schmoe off the street and ask them who runs Tesla. More than likely they know, because Elon's name is synonymous with the company in the news. And Tesla is in the news *a lot*. Now ask him who runs GM. Or Microsoft. Or even Apple at this point.

No, I have to agree with the previous poster. If Elon saw a hostile takeover and thought it could succeed, he would just threaten to walk and more than likely it would lose steam. He is a large value to the company. Why do you think the board offered him such a lucrative contract to keep him?
 
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Public perception tends to disagree with you. Pull any Joe Schmoe off the street and ask them who runs Tesla. More than likely they know, because Elon's name is synonymous with the company in the news. And Tesla is in the news *a lot*. Now ask him who runs GM. Or Microsoft. Or even Apple at this point.

No, I have to agree with the previous poster. If Elon saw a hostile takeover and thought it could succeed, he would just threaten to walk and more than likely it would lose steam. He is a large value to the company. Why do you think the board offered him such a lucrative contract to keep him?
Elon doesn't have a simple lucrative contract. If Elon leaves....he gets nothing. If Elon doesn't work hard....he won't get anything ( not that he needs it ). The board is running Tesla.

They offered him big money if he produced. They didn't offer him one dime for doing nothing. If Elon does nothing....he gets nothing.

I think of it another way. If they wanted to keep him like you are touting......They would have given billions just for being him. - like they do in sports. Nope.

Elon will have to work to get more billions. He will have to produce.

Why Elon Musk’s Compensation Plan Wouldn’t Work for Most Executives
 
I’m a believer like you in the dream Tesla and Elon have envisioned but one has to be nervous. If they keep missing production schedules which allows other auto makers to catch up...

You are assuming all these new players in the BEV marketplace will be able to meet production schedules without any hitches. And where is their fast charging system? It is just promises at this point. I am not nervous. I am filled with confidence as a result of the Falcon Heavy extravaganza.

I mean Tesla has a significant head start but still. If your company has never made a profit and say Toyota comes along saying how they’re seriously getting into the EV market with a super charger network, etc investors with real money could dump Tesla and go somewhere else. Hope it never happens I’m just saying
But Toyota is not seriously getting into the EV market, they are stuck in CNG hell. I have no faith in a company that is so out of touch with the market place especially with their current exterior design vernacular. Toyota sales are taking a serious hit. And I'm just saying.
 
You are assuming all these new players in the BEV marketplace will be able to meet production schedules without any hitches. And where is their fast charging system? It is just promises at this point. I am not nervous. I am filled with confidence as a result of the Falcon Heavy extravaganza.


But Toyota is not seriously getting into the EV market, they are stuck in CNG hell. I have no faith in a company that is so out of touch with the market place especially with their current exterior design vernacular. Toyota sales are taking a serious hit. And I'm just saying.
I wasn’t specifically saying Toyota, although their sales are doing fine btw, but anyone. What if GM, Ford, and Chevy announced a competing supercharger network tomorrow? They could (and prob should). All I’m saying is Tesla has a huge head start but as this country moves away from oil either via the free market or like California is talking about doing by out right banning new sales of ICE cars other big automakers are going to start seriously competing in the BEV market and I’d prefer if Tesla was the dominate player in this arena.
 
I wasn’t specifically saying Toyota,
say Toyota comes along saying how they’re serioisly getting into the EV market with a super charger network, etc investors with real money could dump Tesla and go somewhere else
I must have misunderstood.
What if GM, Ford, and Chevy announced a competing supercharger network tomorrow? They could (and prob should).
GM, Ford, and Chevy SHOULD get into the serious BEV market tomorrow including a fast charging system, but they won't. They lack vision, imagination, and commitment. They are tied to the oil industry and dealership business model. They are headed to oblivion. No more bailouts for them. Let them adapt or die, their choice. This is not something I take pleasure in. This will be bad for our economy and balance of trade. We need to clean up our air quality and the big three automakers need to be part of it. Truly discouraging.
 
Musk's recent compensation plan announcement is a sideshow. The company continues to burn $1bn+ per quarter. They have always said they needed to make their own batteries for M3 sales to be profitable - so far, hasn't happened. So, either more $ goes into Gigafactory development or they sell more M3s at a loss - the 'ol "we lose money on every one but make up for it in volume" strategy. They were recently able to raise cash again on deposits on Semis and roadsters, but that money was pretty immediately spent.

Tesla survives because of its ability to continue to convince lenders and equity investors to double, quadruple, and octople down; and for people to put in deposits for cars they might not see for years in the hope that the money will be there when the time comes. So far, it's worked (and I was one of those depositors making a zero-interest loan to the company in the hope of getting a cool car someday - fortunately, mine came).

As long as they continue to depend on outside capital to exist - and they do and will for the forseeable future - they depend on the kind of tent-revival furvor in their investor community that only an Elon Musk can instill. The moment that goes away... or the moment equity and debt capital markets grind to a halt (remember '07-'08?) life will get very very different at TSLA. The spiral could just as easily go down as up.

I'm long the product, just not the stock. For the company's sake I hope the capital markets stay as liquid and friendly as they have been for as long as possible. For our sake as product owners, I hope other car manufacturers keep missing the competitive advantage represented by the supercharger network so that if (hopefully not when, but man, it feels pretty likely to me) that the cash flow piper demands to get paid and equity value comes crashing down there's something a Ford or BMW or Daimler will want to buy beyond a bunch of warranty claims on drivetrains they didn't design.


Elon doesn't have a simple lucrative contract. If Elon leaves....he gets nothing. If Elon doesn't work hard....he won't get anything ( not that he needs it ). The board is running Tesla.

They offered him big money if he produced. They didn't offer him one dime for doing nothing. If Elon does nothing....he gets nothing.

I think of it another way. If they wanted to keep him like you are touting......They would have given billions just for being him. - like they do in sports. Nope.

Elon will have to work to get more billions. He will have to produce.

Why Elon Musk’s Compensation Plan Wouldn’t Work for Most Executives
 
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Musk's recent compensation plan announcement is a sideshow. The company continues to burn $1bn+ per quarter. They have always said they needed to make their own batteries for M3 sales to be profitable - so far, hasn't happened. So, either more $ goes into Gigafactory development or they sell more M3s at a loss - the 'ol "we lose money on every one but make up for it in volume" strategy. They were recently able to raise cash again on deposits on Semis and roadsters, but that money was pretty immediately spent.

Tesla survives because of its ability to continue to convince lenders and equity investors to double, quadruple, and octople down; and for people to put in deposits for cars they might not see for years in the hope that the money will be there when the time comes. So far, it's worked (and I was one of those depositors making a zero-interest loan to the company in the hope of getting a cool car someday - fortunately, mine came).

As long as they continue to depend on outside capital to exist - and they do and will for the forseeable future - they depend on the kind of tent-revival furvor in their investor community that only an Elon Musk can instill. The moment that goes away... or the moment equity and debt capital markets grind to a halt (remember '07-'08?) life will get very very different at TSLA. The spiral could just as easily go down as up.

I'm long the product, just not the stock. For the company's sake I hope the capital markets stay as liquid and friendly as they have been for as long as possible. For our sake as product owners, I hope other car manufacturers keep missing the competitive advantage represented by the supercharger network so that if (hopefully not when, but man, it feels pretty likely to me) that the cash flow piper demands to get paid and equity value comes crashing down there's something a Ford or BMW or Daimler will want to buy beyond a bunch of warranty claims on drivetrains they didn't design.
Well said. There are not many of us on this forum who love the Tesla product but don't drink the EM financial kool-aid. The numbers tell the story and as you said if we even have a hint of 2007 in the credit markets, TSLA stock is finished. What that means for the brand I will leave up to the arm chair analysts on this forum.
 
An Ioniq with a bigger battery (due next year) could easily become the EV Camry. It's a car, not a computer masquerading as a car, it's not a weirdmobile, and compared to Model 3 it's pretty cheap: $275/month to lease the 150-mile version.
Robin
 
If Tesla is bought out, wouldn't the buyer maintain the service centers and just overhaul assembly strategy?

In the worst case of Tesla folding (we don't want that to happen as it had driven innovation), what assets besides patents would a vulture creditor want from the company? It's not like Tesla cannot issue more equity at $300/pop they just don't want shareholder dilution at the moment.
 
If Tesla is bought out, wouldn't the buyer maintain the service centers and just overhaul assembly strategy?

In the worst case of Tesla folding (we don't want that to happen as it had driven innovation), what assets besides patents would a vulture creditor want from the company? It's not like Tesla cannot issue more equity at $300/pop they just don't want shareholder dilution at the moment.
Good question. I would assume they would correct the assembly and parts problems to meet build goals. I am not sure what the whole asset picture looks like but the Supercharger Network has a lot of value that can be monetized. Also the technology patents are worth something. I actually think with Musk and his insane promises and demands out of the way the company would do better and perhaps even some of the key people who quit because of Musk would return. Lots of variables.
 
When a company decides it wants to acquire a publicly listed company, it does so my acquiring *all* outstanding shares, not 51%. At 51% you will gain control of the board, but you don't own the company. It is still publicly listed.

Yes, and then the board will be friendly to a merger, no? They certainly still have legal fiduciary duties for the minority shareholders, but what prevents a sale/merger at this point? Or is this where freeze-out laws apply (which vary by state)?