Don't cancel your M3 just yet....

[Krugerrand]

May be drink some coffee to wake up. Had EM announced M3 to be 44k back in 2016 they could have sold SR mile version with 50 kWh battery without PUP for 44k. Their margins would have been much higher, and wouldn't have to come up with 75kWh and PUP packages to increase the margins.

Coffee ingested hours ago. You’ve clearly not being paying attention to anything Tesla related particularly the following parts;

3+B in cash currently
Always open product lines with more expensive versions/highly optioned vehicles
Specifically announced what would be for sale to employees, current owners and then non-owners
Margins on new vehicles are always low to negative at the start of ramp and improve over time - historical data on that simply see S and X launches

I’ll stop there until you catch up with your coffee intake.

 

[Krugerrand]

Since there is no way to take delivery without paying a delivery fee, it's a $50K car. And only if you want black.

True. Forgot about the delivery charge. And yes in black and with aeros, no AES and no AP and no FSD.

 

[ℬête Noire]

True. Forgot about the delivery charge. And yes in black and with aeros, no AES and no AP and no FSD.

Yeah, I've mentally re-labeled my "deposit" as "pre-paid delivery fee". It's a little short of that (I think my "delivery fee" is going to be $1200?) but it keeps me from subtracting it from the vehicle price.

 

[Uncle Paul]

If Tesla goes bankrupt, the stock and loans potentially can go to Zero. Easy for another company to pick it up. They call it by the friendly name of restructuring.

Elon has always said that he is making Tesla's, not to earn him money, but to advance the conversion from petroleum to electric drive. That goal is well underway to becoming reality, with all the other manufacturers making plans to join him in the conversion.

I believe Elon is appreciative of all the people that have supported him by buying cars and stock. His goal with Tesla is to continue to advance the EV revolution.

Tesla has laid a solid ground work of EV design, factory development, gigafactory roll outs and all the other things necessary to make the company successful.

The investments have been tremendous, but I believe he has all his ducks in a row to eventually become the largest and most successful company in the world.

Future people will look back on this as one of the greatest investment opportunities of all time.

 

[kimberj]

Coffee ingested hours ago. You’ve clearly not being paying attention to anything Tesla related particularly the following parts;

3+B in cash currently
Always open product lines with more expensive versions/highly optioned vehicles
Specifically announced what would be for sale to employees, current owners and then non-owners
Margins on new vehicles are always low to negative at the start of ramp and improve over time - historical data on that simply see S and X launches

I’ll stop there until you catch up with your coffee intake.

You need more, it's not "most expensive version" that they need to sell, it's the more of the most profitable versions. 44k SR without PUP would have give them more margins, and they could have made 3 50kWh cars instead of 2 75 kWh.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Tesla makes a very attractive product. If the bond market closes to them and they are unable to raise more money, This would likely look attractive to GM or Ford after BK...

Ahh, yes, welcome back to the forum. I guess you have a new short position...

 

[Krugerrand]

You need more, it's not "most expensive version" that they need to sell, it's the more of the most profitable versions. 44k SR without PUP would have give them more margins, and they could have made 3 50kWh cars instead of 2 75 kWh.

OMG! You can’t honestly believe that the SR w/o PUP is a higher margin car than LR with PUP. For realz?!?!?

Besides there’s absolutely NO evidence that the SR version is going to be the bigger seller. Historically Tesla vehicles are highly optioned. There’s also been a lot of people holding out for AWD and performance versions. Perhaps in two years the SR might begin to pick up but not right now.

 

[insaneoctane]

Dealerships make around half of their profits through their service centers. Selling you the car is just "marketing" aimed to bring you under their wing hoping to sell you many years of service. It's a scam IMO, and its a big factor why big automotive is resisting EV....their dealership model depends on you needing service...lots if it.

It's an interesting business model. I am just surprised big oil doesn't subsidise ICE vehicles....

 

[ℬête Noire]

Dealerships make around half of their profits through their service centers. Selling you the car is just "marketing" aimed to bring you under their wing hoping to sell you many years of service.

That's why when I bought my last ICE car and had a poor experience doing so I let them know about it (a few times in a few ways) that I'd never see them again. Then drove the extra miles for service in a different direction to have that happen.

Kinda sucks for the people in their Service department who'd feel the brunt of that in their numbers but I guess the lesson there is don't team up with jackasses. *shrug*

 

[david_42]

I find these bankruptcy threads amusing. Comparing the finances of a new company that is building factories to the finances of companies that are closing factories makes zero sense. I remember one where a bunch of retirement funds were pushing for Tesla to distribute "all the cash" as dividends! Go back and check on how many years Microsoft ran without paying dividends. Yeah, Microsoft, the company that "Can't compete with IBM. It's headed for bankruptcy, so dump your stock."

 

[WileyTheMan]

Setting the whole "Tesla going bankrupt" nonsense aside, Tesla would eventually be gutted and dismantled if purchased by another car manufacturer, and would turn into yet another nameplate. EV innovation would disappear in favor of the Almighty Dollar. Think Saturn.

No thanks to your theory. Tesla serves the industry better as a separate entity run like a tech company. It gets the established auto industry out of their comfort zone and actually...oh I don't know...innovate?

 

[ℬête Noire]

Setting the whole "Tesla going bankrupt" nonsense aside, Tesla would eventually be gutted and dismantled if purchased by another car manufacturer, and would turn into yet another nameplate. EV innovation would disappear in favor of the Almighty Dollar. Think Saturn.

No thanks to your theory. Tesla serves the industry better as a separate entity run like a tech company. It gets the established auto industry out of their comfort zone and actually...oh I don't know...innovate?

The biggest issue with the conjecture of getting acquired, in my estimation, is that things would have to go VERY sideways for anyone to be able to afford to buy them out.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The biggest issue with the conjecture of getting acquired, in my estimation, is that things would have to go VERY sideways for anyone to be able to afford to buy them out.

That's just nonsense.

GM or Toyota or any Supercar company could could buy Tesla out in a heartbeat if Tesla wanted to sell. Thank God they don't want to.

 

[Cloxxki]

The biggest issue with the conjecture of getting acquired, in my estimation, is that things would have to go VERY sideways for anyone to be able to afford to buy them out.

Well, since so much world domination and profit (which are not #1 priority) are priced into the share, there is a good way to fall if selling were to gain momentum. Still, pricey to buy outright. The competition that cared about Tesla's tech already got it through hiring ex-Tesla people. So they don't have a real incentive. Even the FSD thing needs to first go tremendously well to become a big factor to others.

People are easy to yell that a brand is going out of business every day. But we still have new Opels coming out. And you can still get service for them. Shareholders are casino players. Look how many current main index companies made ot from inception to today. Companies just don't last.

So M3 didn't become affordable to anyone with median income, those who get a $36K Tesla will not have the prized gimmicks associated with the brand, and a bare bones Model S looks pretty good compared to yet to be announced fully loaded M3's.
Desgined to be a self driving car, ride share, etc. But the understated $35K flung around is not for what the car entails to be. That'd be $44+, bare bones. And will not be here intil 2019 in terms of purchase, and who knows when the car will actually become able to pick your kids up from school for you...

 

[insaneoctane]

With so much to lose, I'm surprised all the existing car companies don't pool together, buy Telsa, and dismantle them. Preserving their oil burning, service centric, ICE business model.....

 

[Krugerrand]

That's just nonsense.

GM or Toyota or any Supercar company could could buy Tesla out in a heartbeat if Tesla wanted to sell. Thank God they don't want to.

With what? Food stamps?

 

[WileyTheMan]

With what? Food stamps?

Government loans.

 

[djplong]

GM, Ford or any other car company can't come up with anywhere NEAR the money that would be needed to buy Tesla.

Apple could write a check. I can't remember where it was, but there was an article that pointed out the advantages of such a deal. Apple has 4x the cash on hand needed to buy Tesla. Buying Tesla would solve ANYone's question about Tesla's finances. It would give Apple and entirely new market to disrupt, continuing the way that Tesla has BEEN disrupting it. It would allow Apple to take whatever lessons it learned from their Titan project (their self-driving car) and wither apply them or discard them in favor of continuing Tesla's mission.

They were saying it WAS happening. They weren't even being like those idiotic financial articles where some hedge fund manager who doesn't know wrench from a screwdriver says they SHOULD do it. Just outlining what problems COULD be solved.

 

[jsrawa]

I will say that I’m surprised Apple hasn’t made a move to buy Tesla, at least that we are aware of, with their long rumored/confirmed work on self driving and EV vehicles. Apple could keep the brand seperate and independent similar to the purchase of Beats a few years back. The issue is that Elon would need to remain in control.

This guy thinks Apple should buy Tesla and Elon become CEO of Apple.

2018 Predictions: Apple Buys Tesla -- Cook Retires -- Musk Takes The Reins

 

[Garlan Garner]

GM, Ford or any other car company can't come up with anywhere NEAR the money that would be needed to buy Tesla.

Apple could write a check. I can't remember where it was, but there was an article that pointed out the advantages of such a deal. Apple has 4x the cash on hand needed to buy Tesla. Buying Tesla would solve ANYone's question about Tesla's finances. It would give Apple and entirely new market to disrupt, continuing the way that Tesla has BEEN disrupting it. It would allow Apple to take whatever lessons it learned from their Titan project (their self-driving car) and wither apply them or discard them in favor of continuing Tesla's mission.

They were saying it WAS happening. They weren't even being like those idiotic financial articles where some hedge fund manager who doesn't know wrench from a screwdriver says they SHOULD do it. Just outlining what problems COULD be solved.

Indeed they can. Tesla is that large of a company.

Just about any car company can buy 51% of the shares of Tesla. That's all it takes.

Whats not going to happen IMO is that Tesla won't let anyone buy them.

Toyota sells more Camrys than Tesla sells vehicles. That's not to say that there is anything wrong with Tesla....its just what it is.