Of course I understand anyone's frustration if their own car has problems. However, I"ll add that the "best car" statement can still be accurate even WITH a significant number of quality issues... so long as the overall fleet statistics are that those quality issues are fewer than what other cars experience. One needs fleet stats to discuss that, but IIRC Consumer Reports came out that the Model S had excellent reliability and customer satisfaction at the fleet level, even at the beginning.
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Drive unit problems explanation by Elon
- Thread starter Matias
- Start date
Of course I understand anyone's frustration if their own car has problems. However, I"ll add that the "best car" statement can still be accurate even WITH a significant number of quality issues... so long as the overall fleet statistics are that those quality issues are fewer than what other cars experience. One needs fleet stats to discuss that, but IIRC Consumer Reports came out that the Model S had excellent reliability and customer satisfaction at the fleet level, even at the beginning.
Consumer Reports rated Model S initial quality as only average based upon questionnaires sent to owners. It's easy to rate a car 99 out of 100 when you have no long term ownership or usage data and are basing that rating on one sample car that is available for a limited amount of time. I received one of those questionnaires, and it pained me to have to say that my 2010 Highlander had a loose wiper arm in the four years I've owned it, while the Model S received two drivetrain replacements in the first 8 months including a slew of other parts swaps. Don't get me wrong, Tesla service is great and they almost make having trouble a fun experience, but this kind of stuff can't continue.
Consumer Reports will be issuing another update on the Model S reliability. If CR withdraws its recommended status for Model S if the number of repairs end up being too high, that is going to seriously damage Tesla's reputation and it will hurt sales. Early adopters such as myself are forgiving, but as you have seen reports from Europe and China, other consumers have much higher expectations and will not cut Tesla any slack for being the new kid on the block.
Milling or cicada sound recorded today. This has existed for a couple months, over 10k miles and has pretty much stabilized - isn't getting any louder or changing character.
[url="http://mail.union-tel.com/Viewer/FileViewer.aspx?ID=IkBGPW5HJXt2fHs6JHJ5O3B8ekcA&Mode=test"[/url]
Audio file is <MS-milling_cicada_sounds.flac> 7.1 mb. Past the midpoint notice how the sound dies each time power draw reaches zero or below. What does that tell us? Disregard road and tire rumble which is all normal.
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[url="http://mail.union-tel.com/Viewer/FileViewer.aspx?ID=IkBGPW5HJXt2fHs6JHJ5O3B8ekcA&Mode=test"[/url]
Audio file is <MS-milling_cicada_sounds.flac> 7.1 mb. Past the midpoint notice how the sound dies each time power draw reaches zero or below. What does that tell us? Disregard road and tire rumble which is all normal.
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Sounds like a missing ball or roller from a bearing has fallen out from its bearing cage…
I also have a milling sound in mine now, a more high pitched noise compared to this, bearing sound as from a badly worn but still intact bearing. Its sound as it has origin in a high speed shaft, I assume to be from the pinion input shaft… ???
Do any of you have insight of the buildup of these transmissions, and the cause of these problems?
I would assume it should be pretty straight forward to design a single step transmission with known torque and speed inputs. Is it unexpected factor knocking Telsa in the head? Like a stray current micro welding the bearing surfaces? Or is it related to design or a manufacturing flaw like using too small bearings, bearings fits, lack of pre-loading or lubricant/cooling?
I know my transmission will be replaced on warranty, but however I am really curious to find out what the problem really is…
If I were to guess, the diff problems that have happened stem from an improperly setup differential(not shimmed right) at the factory.
Not sure if this is the correct thread to post to...
I had been hearing a thud very often while i was in stop and go traffic and i would disengage the accelerator. This would happen more often than not. I called Tesla in Mt Kisco and had a three week wait for an appointment. I was also hearing a plastic like clicking sound while backing up. This was coming from the steering column.
The service team at Mt Kisco was very diligent and helpful however the tech after several test drives of my car determined that the thump i said i heard was a loose cable for the baby seat (tie down). The steering column was fixed and i had my annual service.
Sure enough the same thump was there when i got the car back and i followed up with another service appointment with no wait. I had my wife drive the car with the tech so he could hear the sound and apparently its the drive unit that needs to be replaced... Gonna take several days to fix. I have 15k miles on the car in 11 months of ownershsip... Is this common? Or was i just unlucky.
I had been hearing a thud very often while i was in stop and go traffic and i would disengage the accelerator. This would happen more often than not. I called Tesla in Mt Kisco and had a three week wait for an appointment. I was also hearing a plastic like clicking sound while backing up. This was coming from the steering column.
The service team at Mt Kisco was very diligent and helpful however the tech after several test drives of my car determined that the thump i said i heard was a loose cable for the baby seat (tie down). The steering column was fixed and i had my annual service.
Sure enough the same thump was there when i got the car back and i followed up with another service appointment with no wait. I had my wife drive the car with the tech so he could hear the sound and apparently its the drive unit that needs to be replaced... Gonna take several days to fix. I have 15k miles on the car in 11 months of ownershsip... Is this common? Or was i just unlucky.
I've had mine replaced twice. Some will tell you it's not common, but it is. It was enough of an issue that Tesla had to address it in their last earnings call, warning investors that Tesla will be increasing its warranty reserves this quarter which will have an impact on its figures. Tesla had to add a drive unit warranty to address the concerns. That speaks to a widespread issue.
Krugerrand
Meow
From a warranty and cost standpoint, yes. But owners are still experiencing issues with their drive units. Elon's announcement didn't suddenly fix problematic drive units, it simply alleviated concern with the expanded warranty. Many owners still have drive units in their cars that may develop odd noises and issues that will be covered under the warranty for 8 years. But the problems still exist for many owners.
Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly: are you saying that, because "many owners still have drive units that MAY develop odd noises and issues" that "problems still exist"? If so, I don't follow your logic. Sure, each and every one of our drive units MAY develop a problem. But so could ANY part of ANY car... that does not mean that "problems still exist for many owners".
What Elon's announcement effectively means is that anyone with drive unit problems will get them fixed under warranty for the first 8 years of the car's life. Given that the oldest Model S is just under 2.4 years old now, that means you should ONLY be concerned about being left with a problematic and out-of-warranty drive unit if you believe that Tesla will still be having problems with their drive units in 5.6 more years. Personally, I'm comfortable that they'll iron out whatever kinks there are by then, so Elon's announcement DOES "magically" eliminate my concern: by the time my Model S is out of warranty, it will be fitted with a problem-free drive unit, if it ever had any problems in the first place which mine has not.
If you believe that Tesla will still be having drive-unit problems 5-6 years from now, which you might, then you'd have a solid source of concern. (But you might want to reconsider ownership if you really believe they'll continue to have those kinds of issues AND not resolve them to the customer's satisfaction.)
Krugerrand
Meow
Not sure what more you want. It's addressed. It's covered under warranty and owners need not be concerned they'll have some unexpected or huge out of pocket expense. It's not a safety issue. There's a small chance it may cause an inconvenience, but that's hardly worth getting one's panties in knot over. I may be inconvenienced today if something goes wrong with my ICE.
And let me correct your second sentence: But some (a handful of?) owners are experiencing issues with their drive units and are being looked after by Tesla.
I was simply clarifying that by saying "it's been addressed", we are simply speaking about the warranty. We do not know what changes, if any, were actually made to the drive unit design that would prevent the same issues from occurring. That's all.
Service just told me they are replacing my drive unit. That's the second time now. It made the annoying buzzing sound. Replacing it fixed the problem for a while, then it came back. If this continues, they will be replacing mine every 12k miles.
From the buildup video it looks like the deep-groove radial ball bearings in the gearbox are insufficient to carry the axial thrust loads induced by the helical-cut gear sets, especially when the torque load reverses. Some sort of bi-directional thrust bearing is needed to carry these axial loads.
One platter-shaped axial ball bearing inserted between the "blunt ends" of the gear axle and the gearbox casing on each side for the axial loads, and one ring-shaped ball/needle bearing pushed over each end of the axle for the radial load ... if that is really the cause I wonder why it wasn't caught in testing. Maaybe they just varied the torque load and didn't reverse it or not often enough?
Are there any indications of this problem occurring in cars produced after they extended the warranty? If not, why does it seem to happen repeatedly to older cars even after having the drive unit replaced? If they really can't seem to solve it, that worries me much more than the problem existing in the first place.
I finally ordered a car after the D announcement, AWD and the drive unit issues being the only things holding me back, but I couldn't have imagined this still being an issue. It's scary.
I finally ordered a car after the D announcement, AWD and the drive unit issues being the only things holding me back, but I couldn't have imagined this still being an issue. It's scary.
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