NigelM
Recovering Member
As for the "Active" members number, I have no idea.
So why use it as a basis for quoting stats....?
Never mind. Time for bed here.
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As for the "Active" members number, I have no idea.
Because, it's pretty obvious that not all 15,076 members are active here.So why use it as a basis for quoting stats....?
I think that we are missing the main issue here. The drive unit and inverter are replaced as a unit for ANY issue with them. Tesla is trying to find out how to make them durable and prevent complaints/problems. In an ICE if a spark plug wire goes bad the spark plug wire is replaced. With a Tesla the motor and inverter are replaced when a diode goes bad. It takes less shop time than the diagnosis and spark plug rewiring. The cost may be small with the unit being sent back to Fremont for diagnosis and repair with future prevention as a goal and then the unit is placed in someone else's car.
Normal? They're getting replaced. Presumably new ones don't do that, those vehicles didn't do that when new and replacing the drive units made the noises go away.
Would you call the noises in the 2 Edmunds YouTube videos "normal"? Would you want yours fixed (thru whatever means) if you paid $110K for your car? ($110K listed at 2013 Tesla Model S Long Term Road Test - Introduction.)
TonyWilliams' Rav4 EV (aka "poor man's Tesla" which uses their powertrain, battery pack, etc.) got noisy and he got his drive unit replaced. You can hear it at Toyota Rav4EV Tesla Motor Noise - YouTube. He also made a not surprising post at Toyota Rav4 EV Forum , can you hear it in yours? about another that was louder than his.
Another Rav4 EV guy posted his before video at Toyota Rav4 EV Forum , can you hear it in yours? and after at Toyota Rav4 EV Forum , can you hear it in yours?.
FWIW, I've driven the Rav4 EV numerous times and have test driven a Model S. I know what they "normally" sound like (w/o the buzzing motor sound). I also have about 8.3K miles on my Leaf. I can't recall a single Leaf on mynissanleaf.com that has had its motor or gearbox replaced due to increased noise and it's been on sale since end of 2010. And, there are far more Leafs in the world (Nissan sells 100,000 Leaf EVs worldwide) than there are Model S. The # of motor replacements that we know of are also almost nil.you are working against your point. The fact that it's common (even in other vehicles) might just mean the motor makes noise after time without any serious issue, just like an ice makes noise without any serious issue. While it is possible something is out of sync and broke (since brand new ones don't make the noise), it's also possible that once the motor settles in (a certain period like a break in period in any device), the noise is inherent and natural.
FYI, the noise in the rav4 videos is similar to what most here are talking about... Since you probably haven't heard the noise yourself, not owning one. The noise in the edmunds video is completely different and sounds like an actual problem. It sounds like something is out of balance. I don't think that is the sound most are having.
It is possible that tesla is replacing them not because there is actually any reason to be concerned, but instead they are doing it purely out of a customer satisfaction standpoint, especially if it costs very little to replace it and fix the old one.
and it is also possible there is something actually wrong with those motors, but we can't conclude that at all with the data here. I'm not sure why you, not owning the car, are always also concerned with finding every last issue with it... Even when for all we know it isn't an issue.
As for the bolded part, I'm not. For "Even when for all we know it isn't an issue." What's not an issue? The noises? Drive units being replaced?
the leaf is using a different motor, so yes, something that isn't happening with the leaf might be normal in the tesla motors. Just because they are both electric doesn't mean that it's apples to apples. I certainly wouldn't compare a ferarri to a focus.FWIW, I've driven the Rav4 EV numerous times and have test driven a Model S. I know what they "normally" sound like (w/o the buzzing motor sound). I also have about 8.3K miles on my Leaf. I can't recall a single Leaf on mynissanleaf.com that has had its motor or gearbox replaced due to increased noise and it's been on sale since end of 2010. And, there are far more Leafs in the world (Nissan sells 100,000 Leaf EVs worldwide) than there are Model S. The # of motor replacements that we know of are also almost nil.
There's This Seattle-area Nissan Leaf owner has already put 100,000 miles on his EV. If there are any who have beaten him, they're unfortunately probably outside the US and in Japan (likely Japanese taxis), also partly due to there being almost 2K CHAdeMO DC FCs in Japan...
So, you're saying the Rav4 EV noises and other similar videos I've heard hear of Model S motor noises (for which drive unit replacement fix it) are "normal"? You're probably correct on your statement re: Edmunds' noises.
As for the bolded part, I'm not. For "Even when for all we know it isn't an issue." What's not an issue? The noises? Drive units being replaced?
FWIW, I've driven the Rav4 EV numerous times and have test driven a Model S. I know what they "normally" sound like (w/o the buzzing motor sound). I also have about 8.3K miles on my Leaf. I can't recall a single Leaf on mynissanleaf.com that has had its motor or gearbox replaced due to increased noise and it's been on sale since end of 2010. And, there are far more Leafs in the world (Nissan sells 100,000 Leaf EVs worldwide) than there are Model S. The # of motor replacements that we know of are also almost nil.
Thats what I tried to explain to him on another forum, but it seems like in his eyes, a high performance drivetrain is the same as a low performance one. Simple physics debunks that, as Higher HP means more heat, and heat is the enemy of reliability.The Leaf doesn't generate 430 ft/lbs of torque, either. That is an insane amount of power to generate and transfer to the wheels. If the reduction gear mesh or differential isn't exactly perfect then excess wear is going to occur. I suspect the droning noise is from premature wear in the reduction gear on a small number of cars, which, as has been pointed out, is integral to the whole drive train unit and requires a whole drive unit swap to replace. I'd be willing to bet the motors are fine.
The Leaf doesn't generate 430 ft/lbs of torque, either. That is an insane amount of power to generate and transfer to the wheels. If the reduction gear mesh or differential isn't exactly perfect then excess wear is going to occur. I suspect the droning noise is from premature wear in the reduction gear on a small number of cars, which, as has been pointed out, is integral to the whole drive train unit and requires a whole drive unit swap to replace. I'd be willing to bet the motors are fine.
True that heavy acceleration results in increased wear and tear e.g. tire tread life. But this is true for any vehicle. Model S applies its massive torque smoothly upon launch if you gradually squeeze on the power as opposed to stomping on the accelerator. Make sure that your gear reduction, motor and wheel bearings, CV joints are up to normal operating temperature. It is so much easier to abuse an ICE vehicle dumping the clutch, grabbing shifts, cold engine -- these things we no longer have to worry about.
clintons' post over in another thread here
got me wondering - how much consideration should we give to waiting for the Model S to warm up a bit before hammering it hard? I have to admit I've given it no consideration at all. But it would seem it might be prudent. While there isn't as much damage to be done as on a cold ICE, might there be some truth to this?
I learned on my turbo charged Audi to not lay on the boost until my oil temp came up, as well as giving the turbos time to cool off before parking. Should we develop similar rules of thumb for our high powered electric drive trains, or can we safely discard all that caution to the wind?