diamond.g
Active Member
I like Stats but it doesn’t track the efficiency for temperature the same way TeslaFi does (per trip).
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Driving efficiency decrease with V10
- Thread starter Cerebralblue
- Start date
No, I disagree.
Sentry mode is something you deliberately turn on when you want to use it. When it's on the car is actively doing a job.
Smart Summon is something that is "on-demand" and most newbies are going to assume it's only on when they're actively using it. They won't realize it can impact the power consumption of the vehicle while they're not using the vehicle. In my car this stand-by setting defaulted to on.
If they notice increased consumption they'll state things like "after V10 the vampire drain suddenly increased". So it's important to recognize that this Smart Summon "stay in standby" feature might play a role in it.
I think its important to associate it with vampire drain because of this. It's vampish because it's stealthy.
Sure we both know that in reality this feature is simply keeping the car from fully going to sleep. But, most newbies aren't going to know this.
I like the term vampire drain for power consumption while in suspend/standby/idle/etc. Obviously various settings while change it.
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M109Rider
Active Member
Semantics.
“Deliberately turn on”
And
“On Demand”
Are really the same thing.
you can turn them on or off. ?
You don't deliberately turn on the standby check box. It gets defaulted to on.
It's also not essential for smart summon to work.
It's basically a power management setting.
Have you had a chance to try it? I haven't heard any reports of it being available in Canada yet.
Fernand
Active Member
Sure, average efficiency plummeted with V10. It's all the people testing Summon. All that short range stop and go FSD, driving over curbs, crushing lawns, scaring the natives. From a distance-traveled perspective, that being nil, it's a fair bit of wasted energy 
Not to worry, they will tire of it.
.
Not to worry, they will tire of it. .
Several people have said weather. Which this will be my first fall with the car. I just find it interesting that it also coincides with V10 release.
First drive I made in our LR RWD with V10 netted 240 wh/Mi. Ambient temp was 68-70, dry no wind. On similar trips when it was in the 80's I would easily see 220 wh/Mi. My lifetime average over 4k miles is 216 wh/Mi. Unless that small temp dip is to blame I would say V10 is not as efficient for me.
M109Rider
Active Member
As I understand it, you can turn it off though right ?
Just like smart summon. ..
wouldn’t that make it exactly the same as smart summon ?
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Honestly, I think it's slightly better. "Butt dyno" tells me regen is slightly stronger, and even with temps getting colder in the morning, my consumption is only negligibly worse than expected (within 5wh/mi).
Lots of opinions on the definition of "Vampire Drain". The original meaning was mostly related, very basically, to what the power supply electronics and any associated lights were consuming while a device was "turned off", as well as wall wart consumption from just being plugged in.
People have continued to add things to this that aren't necessarily technically appropriate, in my opinion. If a function is turned on, whether by you or by default to perform work, then it isn't really Vampire Drain, as you directed it. Sentry Mode is an active feature, meaning it is actively doing work when turned on, whether there is an "event" or not. Smart Summon Standby could be a grey area except that I relate it to Sleep mode in Windows. It was directed to be on, and the function is to allow for fast response so whatever it has to keep on in order to facilitate the fast response is not Vampire Drain.
Is the passive entry system Vampire drain? Wi-Fi connection? LTE connection? Maybe a more poorly defined term such at "Phantom Drain" could be applied bu I don't think "Vampire Drain". Vampire Drain =/= Phantom Drain....in my opinion.
People have continued to add things to this that aren't necessarily technically appropriate, in my opinion. If a function is turned on, whether by you or by default to perform work, then it isn't really Vampire Drain, as you directed it. Sentry Mode is an active feature, meaning it is actively doing work when turned on, whether there is an "event" or not. Smart Summon Standby could be a grey area except that I relate it to Sleep mode in Windows. It was directed to be on, and the function is to allow for fast response so whatever it has to keep on in order to facilitate the fast response is not Vampire Drain.
Is the passive entry system Vampire drain? Wi-Fi connection? LTE connection? Maybe a more poorly defined term such at "Phantom Drain" could be applied bu I don't think "Vampire Drain". Vampire Drain =/= Phantom Drain....in my opinion.
I seem to be experiencing a pretty significant efficiency loss since V10 was installed in my SR+.
My commute has no traffic, it's pure highway driving, with short stints on surface streets. ~35 miles each way, in SoCal with pretty consistent weather. Commute to work I've averaged 205wh/mi, commute back home I average 230wh/mi. There's hardly any deviation day to day, since autopilot does most of the driving, at the same speeds. I have ~5000 miles on my car now.
After V10, my commute to work has averaged 230wh/mi, commute home about 260wh/mi. That's pretty significant, just around a 10% decrease in efficiency. My car's maximum range is also reduced post V10. Based on battery % and miles of range displayed, my car has 220 mile range at 100%, rather than 240 miles. I think I'm going to make a service appointment, this has my very concerned.
I wonder if Tesla changed how wh/mi are measured for the trip report? Perhaps they are including consumption prior to you driving on the very first trip report you see, the one that says "consumption since ##:## am/pm". Normally that trip report calculated exclusively what was used as soon as you started driving at whatever time it showed.
My commute has no traffic, it's pure highway driving, with short stints on surface streets. ~35 miles each way, in SoCal with pretty consistent weather. Commute to work I've averaged 205wh/mi, commute back home I average 230wh/mi. There's hardly any deviation day to day, since autopilot does most of the driving, at the same speeds. I have ~5000 miles on my car now.
After V10, my commute to work has averaged 230wh/mi, commute home about 260wh/mi. That's pretty significant, just around a 10% decrease in efficiency. My car's maximum range is also reduced post V10. Based on battery % and miles of range displayed, my car has 220 mile range at 100%, rather than 240 miles. I think I'm going to make a service appointment, this has my very concerned.
I wonder if Tesla changed how wh/mi are measured for the trip report? Perhaps they are including consumption prior to you driving on the very first trip report you see, the one that says "consumption since ##:## am/pm". Normally that trip report calculated exclusively what was used as soon as you started driving at whatever time it showed.
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My efficiency is down about 10%, but I haven't driven very far. I have noticed regen dots and the regen limited warning since the V10 update, which is strange because last Winter I never saw the regen dots or the regen limited warning. Doesn't sound like others have seen more regen limited warnings, so it's probably just me, but a combo of colder temps, lower pressures due to colder temps, and less regen, might account for my lower efficiency.
Colder temperatures definitely limit regen, however I'm in SoCal and the weather hasn't changed much at all since I installed V10.
The same 50-60 F mornings and 70-80F evenings every day. I have about 350 miles with V10.
You can't independently turn on or turn off the Smart Summon enable. You can only toggle the enable button for Summon itself.
I don't see any reason to disable Summon unless you've never use any summon feature, and you're concerned about hackers somehow moving your car.
So if you want to be able to use Summon at some random moment, but you don't want to risk increased power drain during idle then you need to turn off "Keep in Standby" under the Summon options.
I personally wouldn't have put the "Keep in Standby" under the summon option.
I'm honestly not sure why it's even needed. If you want to keep the car in standby then just use Sentry mode. At least then it's doing something. I kind of want to experiment to see how much the power consumption difference is between "Keep in Standby" versus Sentry mode.
It's not smart summon that is causing a decrease in driving efficiency anyway, it's very frustrating to have people hand wave your very clear issue away. I do not have FSD in my car, yet I'm experiencing 10% loss of efficiency while driving. It's not temperature either, I live in a very consistent temperature part of the country, and temperatures have hardly varied since V10 was installed in my car.
No one is attributing smart summon to a decrease in driving efficiency. I originally brought it up because of the concern that it can decrease overall efficiency since the "keep in standby" was added, and it defaults to on (assuming Summon was on before hand).
I can't comment on driving efficiency because V10 launched right when the weather got cold enough to cause regen to decrease on my commute to work.
I think the best place to ask would be in an Australian subgroup. But, that might have the opposite effect where the temperature is rising. So mabye a California subgroup to get more data?
I can't think of anything V10 has that would cause more consumption during driving. The only additional active feature is it now records the rear camera for dashcam. But, that's hardly any energy. So I dunno.
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It's not actually Smart Summon Standby, but Summon Standby. That's an important differential as Summon can be extremely useful, and so far Smart Summon is mostly a gimmick.
In any case I wouldn't tie the "Keep in Standby" to a feature. Sure Tesla does, but only because it can make that particular feature easier to use. It's not a requirement for that feature to work.
I think it's important to keep Engineers honest, and we can do this by assigning everything that doesn't do any actual work into the category of Vampire Drain.
Does keep in standby do any work?
Does it do anything that a proper quick boot up up from sleep wouldn't accomplish?
I think it ultimately comes down to whether it keeps the cameras heated. That's one thing that you obviously can't do with a true lower power sleep mode. Obviously it's not fair to an engineer to claim that energy required to keep a camera clear is Vampire drain.
I have a thermal camera so I can test this. I'll test it because I'm actually curious about as it does provide something useful to me.
The notes on the Keep in Standby option don't say anything about Camera heaters.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Minimum temperatures have plunged in California over the last couple weeks. In September minimum temperatures were in the upper 60s and even above 70 degrees. Now they are in the low 60s - or even mid-50s. This is at LAX which is moderated significantly by the ocean - if you're inland the change in low temperatures will be even more significant. Fall and the Santa Anas have arrived.
This will result in substantial heating impact which likely impacts your efficiency - it does not take much.
Now, if you said you turned off climate control and you still see the same results - that would be worth pondering a bit more.
Compare these plots to the OP's plot. There's a correlation. Remember that most Teslas are in California (which has gotten a lot cooler at night) and in conjunction with the cooling in the rest of the country with the arrival of fall, it's no surprise the efficiency is dropping.
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V10 Rolled out on the 1st for me. Temperatures are relatively flat in my area. Your graph even shows this, minimum temperatures have actually gone up since the 1st! Regardless, calling a 5-10 degree change in weather a plunge is over the top, especially when we're talking about temperatures between 60-80 degrees. 60F does not incur a significant efficiency drop vs 80F anyway, I've driven on plenty of cold (for socal) mornings and my consumption is still in the 205-210 wh/mi range in the morning. Certainly never 230wh/mi.
I have not been driving with climate control on because temperatures are so moderate. It's set to the coldest setting with the AC off, so just outside air is sourced with no heat.
I have not been driving with climate control on because temperatures are so moderate. It's set to the coldest setting with the AC off, so just outside air is sourced with no heat.
