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EAP - would you miss it if you didn’t have it?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by ponzu, Jun 22, 2018.

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Would you get EAP all over again?

  1. Yes, it has saved my life at least once

    6 vote(s)
    8.2%
  2. Yes, its utility in bumper-to-bumper and when fatigued outweighs the quirks and is worth the price

    33 vote(s)
    45.2%
  3. Yes, it’s a pain right now, but without it what’s the point of a Tesla?

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  4. Yes, Tesla will get it right one day and I will not have to pay the extra $1000 to start enjoying it

    5 vote(s)
    6.8%
  5. No, I don’t use it as much as I thought I would

    5 vote(s)
    6.8%
  6. No, it doesn’t work and I don’t see how Tesla is going to fix it given safety concerns

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  7. No, the quirks and the nags are not worth it

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  8. Yes, other

    14 vote(s)
    19.2%
  9. No, other

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  1. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    This question is for current owners who got EAP. Feel free to answer in long form, but I’ll throw in the poll just in case.

    The underlying assumption is that for $6000 anyone can get EAP down the road when the time becomes right. Was it a good call to get it for $5000 upfront?

    Thanks!

    (I don’t know if I need to explain that I am considering removing it from my configuration and am looking for validation.)
     
  2. d21mike

    d21mike Member

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    #2 d21mike, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    I had to pick other because all the other Yes were not accurate. I use it all the time in many places and love it. No way would I buy a Tesla without it.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. TT97

    TT97 Member

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    Ditto (and picked other as well). I had an S loaner for a few days without Autopilot and kept trying to engage with no luck.
     
  4. Charliek

    Charliek Member

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    For me it was a key factor. as an early adopter I wanted to what " assisted driving" / "self driving" was really the future would be like and yes it had quirks ( the early versions of AP2 2107 were " interesting") it only tried to kill me a couple of times. but as we hit 10.4 and 14.1 it really surpassed my initial expectations. now I use it for 9x% of my daily drive and I actually prefer it to driving my commute myself. I can honestly say would not be able do the long and messy ( lots of traffic) commute I have with out it . well, I could but I wouldn't be happy :)
     
    • Like x 1
  5. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    #5 ponzu, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    The early responses are encouraging, and I guess not having driven with it, it’s hard to gauge the actual experience/sentiment. Hence, failure to correctly guess the reasons why one would enjoy/value AP.

    My commute is easy, but like everyone else I have road trips, and on more than one occasion I had to drive fatigued at night, where I considered myself lucky to have arrived alive. That’s where I thought EAP could help me personally.

    Driving withit it daily is hard for me to imagine with the reports of shadow braking. I’m glad the last respondent doesn’t begrudge his car trying to kill him only a few times. Without our sense of humor, what are we? If I am trying to picture the experience of using EAP today, it seems it should make one more tense than relaxed. Is that a good thing?

    The latest update is reported to be demanding that drivers grip the whell and put pressure on it. Someone described as having to white-knuckle it. I would not enjoy it. I drive my current, 9 and 11 year old German cars with one finger (left thumb). Passengers may object, but it works for me on an easy drive, and most my drives are easy. If I have to go from driving with one finger to tightly gripping the wheel with two hands, I may or may not enjoy the change.

    I might have done better to wait to gauge the reaction to the new software, but my window for changing the configuration closes (hopefully) very soon.
     
  6. CameronB

    CameronB Member

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    Heavy AP user here. Both in stop-n-go traffic and road trips. Recently took another 5 hour road trip and except for 2 construction zones and a few blocks of city driving (to Supercharger + food), AP "drove" the whole time. Probably 4:50 of the 5:00 hours. Arrived refreshed feeling like I had only driven an hour.

    AP did brilliant. Never straying from it's lane? Check. Virtually no ping-ponging? Check. Handled cresting of a hill without disengaging? Check. Mountain curves at 75 or 80 mph? Butt-clenching...but still check!

    Zero unintended disengagements from AP on that trip.

    Obviously I had to stay fully engaged, especially so around high speed curves. But even though you are mentally engaged (and, yes, holding the wheel), not having to operate pedals and steering for 400 miles makes the trip fly by.

    I don't love the new/more frequent nag schedule...but it should be obvious to us all that Tesla is doing what it needs to do to reduce the number of AP accidents that get reported by the media that equates Tesla and AutoPilot in a headline with an order of magnitude more clicks than "Toyota Camry rear ends fire truck while on cruise control".

    All of this said, it is progressing much slower than Tesla thought/said and much slower than we all want. My local neighborhood has a ¼ miles stretch I use as a gauge for how AP is progressing. In some ways it handles it much better than it did a year ago when I bought the car. But even the very latest (currently 2018.21.9) version cannot handle the first 'S' turn on that stretch without going across the dividing line into the oncoming lane :(. To give it "partial credit" I guess it doesn't go quite as far into the opposite lane as it used to at that point. But if there was a car in the oncoming lane, it would still hit it. After it gets passed the first S turn, it handles the rest of the stretch well. Mostly. Except at the very end, which it handles inconsistently. 75% of the time, it handles the last (sharp) turn well and the other 25% of the time, it seems to not 'see' the berm (or the turn!) and wants to barrel full bore into the berm! Obviously I would like it to be 100% consistent but it is not yet there.

    And at this point, none of the "Enhanced" features have really/fully materialized (auto handling of highway transitions, on-ramp to off-ramp handling, autonomous lane-change, smart summon). Although possibly by this summer this could change.

    Personally I really like AP and while I too am frustrated with the relatively slow progress on it (I say relative because Tesla seems to be working at a faster pace than MobileEye did and also faster than most others players), I do believe it will get there. If you want to spend an extra $1K and just wait a year or two, that's certainly an option if you don't want to be part of the beta process.

    Supposedly Tesla will be re-doing the AutoPilot Trial so if you do decide to forgo it, you can probably try it out. But if you admit to yourself that you will someday buy it (even if that is 1-2 years from now when it is more mature), then I guess it comes down to opportunity cost. What will you do with that 5K. If you have a great investment to have that $5K earn more than the $1K post-purchase premium, then that could be an option. But if you are going to take that $5K saved and keep it in a bank account earning 0.25% interest or something, I'd just buy AP now and simply don't use it until you hear it is mature enough. But warning...that will be hard. If you have it, you will want to use it, despite it's flaws and nags.
     
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  7. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I use AP frequently. It's not perfect. But I recently had to drive a different car on a road trip, and I really missed the AP.

    That said... how can I vote on EAP, when I've never to my knowledge tried out an EAP feature? Have any EAP features been rolled out yet?
     
    • Like x 1
  8. d21mike

    d21mike Member

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    First, I would probably not drive fatigued at night where I would consider myself lucky to arrive "alive". And, if you were using EAP you would probably get more relaxed and less alert. So, not sure that is the best reason to get EAP.

    Second, the latest update does not require any of those things you posted (drivers grip, pressure, white-knuckle etc). It actually works best with 1 had driving but can work with 2 if doing the following. The idea is the steer wheel normally turn left or right on its own keeping centered in the lane. With "slight" resistance against that movement is all that is need. Again, "slight" like with 1 finger. In a less then normal case you could be on a completely straight road and the wheel is not moving. In that case you would need a "slight" steering pressure which we call torque. This torque can easily be done with 1 finger.

    But why take our word for it. Go to your nearest Tesla SC and take a test drive. Very easy to see how this works while doing the way I describe above. Also, there are many many youtube videos showing this.
     
  9. CameronB

    CameronB Member

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    I have changed to "Yes, Other". I didn't even see that (another Yes choice after all the No's?). Agree that the Yes choices don't cover all the benefits.
     
    • Like x 2
  10. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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  11. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    I was wondering if someone would state the obvious. No, it’s not a good idea to drive fatigued. I guess I am trying to say that I have had to make the hard choice between driving fatigued and not driving. In the future, I would hope Tesla with AP would keep me safer in an inherently unsafe situation. I don’t believe it would let me fall asleep, as it would ding at me to put hands on and apply pressure.

    As far as test driving a 3, up until recently that was not a thing. I read that now it is, but can you really get a sense of what AP is and isn’t on a test drive? I think I’m doing the right thing asking the owners who can speak from experience under varying conditions.
     
  12. TT97

    TT97 Member

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    IMHO, the issues with shadow braking are distorted. It happens on occasion, but if you are paying attention, you can quickly override by pressing the accelerator. It is easy to predict when the car may shadow break. Also, in heavier traffic, the conditions needed for shadow breaking do not exist as the cars in front block the false positives so it would be unlikely there will be someone close to your bumper in an instance where you would get shadow braking.

    I was typing about "white knuckling" but I see plenty of retorts already. Left thumb on the wheel is probably enough to stop the nagging - I keep left hand low and never get nags.
     
  13. d21mike

    d21mike Member

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    I did notice you were in the Model 3 group. I have a Model S. I definitely think you can get a sense of what AP is and isn't on a test drive. Actually I think you might be able to get SC to give you a Model S for like a full day if you state that you have a Model 3 on order and want to determine if you should order EAP. I say Model S because of the availability. But you could also do a test drive in a Model 3 if available but maybe not an extended test drive. I personally watched a lot of YouTube videos before I took the test drive and was a bit surprised at how it felt. Now that I have been using it sine Sept. 2017 it is pretty second nature. Like your driving with 1 finger you probably do not even think about it since it is so natural to you.
     
  14. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    Just got The Email, guys. My attention may temporarily wander from this thread. But I think I get the sentiment on the AP/EAP.
     
  15. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Member

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    I think that you are really mixing up current capabilities and future capabilities and timing. These are really different things.

    The capabilities of the EAP right now are minimal. I think that I paid about $1000 in my 2018 Leaf for similar functionality. The current functionality is well worth $1000, but not worth $5000.

    Most put down $1000 for 2+ years of waiting, was that worth it? It depends.

    Was it worth putting down $5000 for the real EAP that may be many months away? It depends. I did, so I thought that it was worth it.

    also, don't forget that if you do it at time of purchase and you are financing, this gets worked into your payments, as opposed to later when it tends to be cold cash required, no financing.
     
  16. TJtv

    TJtv Member

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    Please please please don't drive when fatigued enough to be close to falling asleep, it's just not worth it, regardless of whether or not you have EAP. If anything, you need to be MORE alert when driving with EAP on that without it.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    Am I wrong in understanding EAP as TACC + AutoSteer? Tesla offers EAP for $5000. It is not clear to me that AP (sans E) is available.
     
  18. BigD0g

    BigD0g Active Member

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    We don't have a single EAP feature yet, so how can I know to get rid of something if we've never had it?
     
  19. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    It may not be the accepted definition of shadow braking, but what I mean is both braking for perceived obstacles, such as shadows of overpasses and trucks, which I guess, gave the phenomenon its name, as well as braking because of missing speed limit data (now that Tesla is not trying to read the signs). The second variety may be more appropriately called phantom braking, but I lump the two behaviors together under one moniker. "Shadow" braking, to me, is braking for no good/apparent reason, endangering the driver.
     
  20. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    There is no need for irony. What I am talking about is paying $5000 today for what Tesla, on the config page, calls "Enhanced Autopilot".

    I may be guilty of mixing up two things, though.

    I am trying to at once ask two questions, assuming the answer is the same.

    The explicit question is: would you miss your AP is you had not bought it for $5000?

    The implied questions: should I pay $5000 for AP, which Tesla called EAP, which many of you feel is not all that E?
     

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