Eastern Canada Superchargers

[taylortbb]

But in terms of priority, what's the point of the Kitchener one then? I can't imagine just about anyone living in Kitchener/Waterloo won't have their own home to charge at.

I wouldn't assume that. The tech industry is full of people that want to own a Tesla, but are also young and without families so they live in condo or apartment towers. I'm one of them, and know many in the same situation.

KW has also seen a very significant boom in condo/apartment construction, with thousands of new units in the past couple years. Much of it course students, but significant amounts of non-student construction too. The new light rail system has caused a significant focus on urban development.

 

[11thIndian]

@taylortbb I suppose. My impression has been the vast majority of people with a Tesla are affluent enough to own a home- but as you say younger people might have just not made that leap yet, or are choosing to put their money into a Tesla over a home. The Model 3 certainly opens up the prospective ownership.

If that’s the case though, I do wonder if one supercharger in a city of K/W is sustainable. While the Supercharger network is a great benefit to Tesla owners, I can’t help but imagine that longer term we’re going to need to see a 10 or 100 fold increase in “passive” charging locations. I don’t think we need a duplication of the gas station model, but more charging integrated into everyday places where people park anyway.

 

[wayner]

But in terms of priority, what's the point of the Kitchener one then? I can't imagine just about anyone living in Kitchener/Waterloo won't have their own home to charge at.

This was somewhat addressed by the previous post but not everyone will have charging facilities at home, especially not if they live in a condo.

 

[wayner]

I can’t help but imagine that longer term we’re going to need to see a 10 or 100 fold increase in “passive” charging locations. I don’t think we need a duplication of the gas station model, but more charging integrated into everyday places where people park anyway.

But you don't need Superchargers for that. L2, or in some cases L1 charging may suffice if you are plugged in for 8 hours or more. But I think you also have to be careful about adding to peak electricity demand.

I have said this before in other threads - I think offering free charging at a workplace is a bad idea as it incents people to charge at work during the day when electricity usage is highest, adding to peak demand, rather than charging at home in the middle of the night when demand on the grid is low. Why should I pay $1.50/day out of my own pocket at home adding 10kWh to my battery when I can do it at work for free? Where it makes sense to have chargers at work is if they allow two way flow so that when demand is really high I can sell power from my car back into the grid if the price gets high enough.

 

[rpm001]

I have said this before in other threads - I think offering free charging at a workplace is a bad idea as it incents people to charge at work during the day when electricity usage is highest, adding to peak demand, rather than charging at home in the middle of the night when demand on the grid is low. Why should I pay $1.50/day out of my own pocket at home adding 10kWh to my battery when I can do it at work for free? Where it makes sense to have chargers at work is if they allow two way flow so that when demand is really high I can sell power from my car back into the grid if the price gets high enough.

This is true and a very good point. But I admit if my workplace offered it, I would use it.

 

[wayner]

We all would if it was free and easy. But if it was a hassle, like having to move your car in the middle of the day as you are only allowed a two hour window at the charger, then you might not bother - unless you needed the juice to get home.

To me the dumbest idea is L2 or L3 charging at a GO station. Most vehicles are going to be parked there for about 9-10 hours so each outlet is going to help one person - the EV owner who takes the 6:00 train. In that instance L1 charging makes more sense and is way cheaper to install, unless it is metered.

 

[11thIndian]

I think I'm conflating my own personal challenges with my current PHEV with what will ultimately be the status quo. Right now my A3 e-tron has a comparatively small 8.8kw battery, so I leave the house with about 35-45kms in the morning. This is generally getting me thru with my daily running around, but if I am always keeping my eyes open for places I can plug in.

With a pure EV with a range of 300+kms, the situation totally flips and I wouldn't be bothered if there wasn't a spot to charge at IKEA, or the mall.

I think for people who have charging capacity at home, the need for any "gas station" surrogate is going to disappear outside of road-trips- which is what Superchargers are for, or if the Ontario gov't is smart, Level3 charging stations at EnRoute rest stops across the province. Tourist destinations will also need additional charging capacity where people are away from home, so Hotels, resorts, and community parking lots will likely suffice.

For those without home charging, renters parking on the street or people in condos/apartments that have not charging utility (which itself will likely need to change), there will continue to need to be local community chargers, but very likely half or less than the number of gas stations we have now.

 

[jbcarioca]

...

For those without home charging, renters parking on the street or people in condos/apartments that have not charging utility (which itself will likely need to change), there will continue to need to be local community chargers, but very likely half or less than the number of gas stations we have now.

Those who live now in very cold climes tend to have L1 charging at many parking places that are used as block and battery heaters by ICE vehicles. These are quite ideal for BEV owners too because they keep the batteries warm, minimize/eliminate passive losses and tend to actually add a bit of range. In warm weather these add 3/4 km/hr so they do make a very positive range extender.

It seems to me that the long term solution once mass adoption happens is home charging plus l1 in many public parking places, with a modest charge included in parking fees or free. Once there are L3 chargers widely available for traveling the ubiquitous cheap and cheerful L1's will eliminate charge anxiety... anyway I think so, and where better to test this thesis than in Quebec and Ontario, including the far northern parts?

 

[rypalmer]

Those who live now in very cold climes tend to have L1 charging at many parking places that are used as block and battery heaters by ICE vehicles. These are quite ideal for BEV owners too because they keep the batteries warm, minimize/eliminate passive losses and tend to actually add a bit of range. In warm weather these add 3/4 km/hr so they do make a very positive range extender.

It seems to me that the long term solution once mass adoption happens is home charging plus l1 in many public parking places, with a modest charge included in parking fees or free. Once there are L3 chargers widely available for traveling the ubiquitous cheap and cheerful L1's will eliminate charge anxiety... anyway I think so, and where better to test this thesis than in Quebec and Ontario, including the far northern parts?

I don't think so. Even 6kW L2 stations are almost useless in very cold weather and can barely keep the battery warm enough to accept a charge. The pack heater alone will saturate this. L1's would be ultra useless in this situation. Not worth the hassle of installing, accepting payment, maintaining, etc.

As we've learned, L3 chargers are not necessarily the answer either: If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

The solution in very cold climates is paid high amperage L2 chargers - 60amp circuits +. Unfortunately, Add Energie nor Chargepoint has figured this out, and doesn't offer anything more than 30 amps for L2 charging.

 

[wayner]

I think for people who have charging capacity at home, the need for any "gas station" surrogate is going to disappear outside of road-trips- which is what Superchargers are for, or if the Ontario gov't is smart, Level3 charging stations at EnRoute rest stops across the province.

@mknox on these forums (who used to work as an exec at an electricity distributor) brings up a good point regarding enRoute stops - they are built in places where the grid is typically very skinny. Retrofitting these locations so that they can deliver a MW or so to charge EVs would be very expensive.

 

[rypalmer]

That wasn't my quote @wayner

 

[wayner]

That wasn't my quote @wayner

Sorry - I don't know how that happened! It is fixed now.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

It looks like Markham is getting its Supercharger!. From a Twitter pic - Markville Mall

 

[mazeminder]

It looks like Markham is getting its Supercharger!. From a Twitter pic - Markville Mall

This is great to see! Perhaps it deserves it's own thread for further discussion/updates?

 

[ElectrifyAB]

This is great to see! Perhaps it deserves it's own thread for further discussion/updates?

Yes! I much prefer the the individual threads like the US superchargers have over our Canadian jumbled up groups.

 

[jbcarioca]

Yes! I much prefer the the individual threads like the US superchargers have over our Canadian jumbled up groups.

A mod will spend some time to unravel all this, but it will pay off, especially as the urban Superchargers and Trans-Canada continue to develop. I think it would be a good idea to have individual threads for each 2018 planned location in order to future-proof this to some extent, but also retain Provincial/regional subgroupings because there will be inevitable location surprises along the way. Also, as non-Tesla networks build out they can fit within the geographic structures.

FWIW, Teslas destined for China from now on are equipped for Supercharger and Chinese standard charging. Soon that diversity will probably come to NA too. Placing all Charging-related threads on a geographic basis will help everyone plan their trip options for the future.

As a non-Canadian who travels often within Canada I know I’d appreciate that.

 

[wayner]

It is good to see that SuperCharger construction is starting to take off - you knew that it would be hard for them to hide this in Southern Ontario as there are more Teslas here than anywhere else in the country and lots of eager Tesla owners looking for signs of SC construction.

 

[sakimano]

Yes! I much prefer the the individual threads like the US superchargers have over our Canadian jumbled up groups.

Its nice to have a general discussion but to also have an individual thread for each new one. We can yap about SC rollout in general here or if you only want to know about one of them you can check there. Like Wikipedia, there are enough interested parties that any information will get updated/shared as soon as its known.

 

[SmartElectric]

equipped for Supercharger, CCS, CHAdeMO and Chinese standard charging

You may have mis-spoke. CCS is absolutely not supported by any Tesla adaptor or natively based on my knowledge, unless you know of a new capability?

 

[jbcarioca]

You may have mis-spoke. CCS is absolutely not supported by any Tesla adaptor or natively based on my knowledge, unless you know of a new capability?

Yes.
Tesla unveils new dual connector charge port design for Model S and Model X
In other discussions it has been strongly implied that Teslas sold in Europe will have native CCS capability, while I was told by a Japanese client who is in the industry that Tesla Japan will be offering native CHAdeMO.

In all of these, other than the single Chinese one there is not definitive proof, so I edited my previous post to only include the Chinese GB standard, as is show in the electrek article.

The real question is not whether these standards will be available in selected markets but whether multiple standards will be natively supported in a single market. I'll happily take wagers that both CCS and Supercharger will be on NA-destined Teslas before January 2020. if they go that far native CHAdeMO would not be a far stretch.