Eastern Canada Superchargers

[Doug_G]

I'm sure it's a practical consideration - finding good locations along the highways can be difficult. They need (a) a cooperative property owner, (b) lots of power, and (c) handy restaurants and shopping. Now with those criteria in mind, drive West from Ottawa on Highway 7 and try and find a site anywhere. You'll end up in Peterborough.

There are lots of suitable locations along the 401 but Canadian Tire won't play ball so the Enroute stations are no-go. Now try and find something close to the highway that meets the above criteria. Limits the choices considerably.

 

[FrozenCanuck]

I'm sure it's a practical consideration - finding good locations along the highways can be difficult. They need (a) a cooperative property owner, (b) lots of power, and (c) handy restaurants and shopping. Now with those criteria in mind, drive West from Ottawa on Highway 7 and try and find a site anywhere. You'll end up in Peterborough.

There are lots of suitable locations along the 401 but Canadian Tire won't play ball so the Enroute stations are no-go. Now try and find something close to the highway that meets the above criteria. Limits the choices considerably.

Any idea what's stopping Canadian Tire from playing ball? Perhaps we can excert some influence and make this happen in a way that is useful for CDN Tire as a corporation too. Sure, they make some money selling gas. But this would really help them look eco friendly too. And I'm sure there are other creative ideas floating around that would benefit Canadian Tire.

 

[sitter_k]

For those interested in what's going on in Canada as a whole:

The Revelstoke Supercharger just opened. There are now 4 Superchargers in western Canada, 3 in eastern Canada. There are 3 under construction in the west, 4 in the east. Plus there's the permit for Comber (near Windsor), so according to the current best information, that'll be 7 in western Canada and 8 in eastern Canada.

Meanwhile, within the past week 13 new Superchargers opened in China.

Permitting in China - "okay how much do you have to invest? Okay we'll fill in this lake, clear cut these woods and get those homes moved for you next week. Pay your bribe at the party office, see you next week. Rubber Stamp."

Permitting in Canada - " conduct a environmental assessment, fill these forms submit detailed drawings in quadruplicate, no not those ones, start again, get an engineer, architect, contractor, lawyer, ministry of transport, ministry of environment, ESA, tssa, local hydro company, your MP and MPP to sign it in person. Pay the permit fees and wait 8 months, if we haven't misplaced your applications by then we'll get to it at our earliest convenience...er I mean our convenience. "

 

[Doug_G]

Any idea what's stopping Canadian Tire from playing ball? Perhaps we can excert some influence and make this happen in a way that is useful for CDN Tire as a corporation too. Sure, they make some money selling gas. But this would really help them look eco friendly too. And I'm sure there are other creative ideas floating around that would benefit Canadian Tire.

They don't want anything associated with one particular OEM manufacturer, so Tesla is out from the get-go. Also they're really not in any hurry to do anything.

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hopfully we haven't misplaced your applications by then."

I've had rather bad luck with that last one.

 

[Forty Creek]

Any idea what's stopping Canadian Tire from playing ball? Perhaps we can excert some influence and make this happen in a way that is useful for CDN Tire as a corporation too. Sure, they make some money selling gas. But this would really help them look eco friendly too. And I'm sure there are other creative ideas floating around that would benefit Canadian Tire.

I've written them twice. Never received a reply.

 

[Peter_M]

They don't want anything associated with one particular OEM manufacturer, so Tesla is out from the get-go. Also they're really not in any hurry to do anything.

So maybe if another car company or two sign up and it becomes clear that superchargers are becoming the de facto standard for fast charging, then once Canadian Tire starts to believe that, they might change their minds. In other words, forget about the On Route stations until the 2020s... Meanwhile, they aren't getting any more business from me.

 

[Doug_G]

So maybe if another car company or two sign up and it becomes clear that superchargers are becoming the de facto standard for fast charging, then once Canadian Tire starts to believe that, they might change their minds. In other words, forget about the On Route stations until the 2020s... Meanwhile, they aren't getting any more business from me.

They haven't had any business from me for two years now - I drive right past them because they don't have what I need.

Unfortunately the shops and restaurants (if you can call them that) are run by an American company, so what little impact this has on the EnRoute station business is meaningless to Canadian Tire.

Clearly the EnRoute stops are a perfect candidate for Level III chargers. My fear is that someday they'll install the usual crappy 30A (24A delivered) Level II stations and no one but the desperate will ever use them.

 

[mknox]

I recently heard reiterated again from a Tesla employee that Mississauga SC will possibly be moving to the Oakville/Burlington area next summer

Yikes! I hope not! The Mississauga location is perfect for me. :wink:

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Well done!

Except, ahem, that there is no Kingston Hydro. Utilities Kingston provides electric and gas services to the community. :wink:

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They don't want anything associated with one particular OEM manufacturer, so Tesla is out from the get-go. Also they're really not in any hurry to do anything.

I have it from a reliable source (who has sworn me to secrecy) that Canadian Tire IS very interested, but will be going with CHAdeMo and/or Combo Plug technology at the OnRoute sites. I think this makes some sense since there would be backlash if they went with a proprietary solution specific to one manufacturer. Remember these OnRout locations are in areas that don't have beefy electric utility infrastructure nearby and there are big costs associated with getting the necessary power to the sites.

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Here is the progress at Barrie from earlier today. Looks like an 8-stall site:

 

[Mayhemm]

I have it from a reliable source (who has sworn me to secrecy) that Canadian Tire IS very interested, but will be going with CHAdeMo and/or Combo Plug technology at the OnRoute sites. I think this makes some sense since there would be backlash if they went with a proprietary solution specific to one manufacturer. Remember these OnRout locations are in areas that don't have beefy electric utility infrastructure nearby and there are big costs associated with getting the necessary power to the sites.

I guess in that situation you have to ask yourself which is the worse business decision: Installing a proprietary solution specific to one manufacturer... or installing a seemingly-more-accommodating standard that will be rendered obsolete by the aforementioned proprietary solution within the next 5-10 years? Doesn't seem that difficult to me. :biggrin:

 

[Jgdixon]

Yes I have heard about Mississauga moving as well from many sources.
Something similar to the Lawrence Ave. location.

 

[Doug_G]

Yes I have heard about Mississauga moving as well from many sources.
Something similar to the Lawrence Ave. location.

Makes total sense. Tranmere was jusst fine back in the Roadster era, but it's way too tiny now.

 

[Forty Creek]

Makes total sense. Tranmere was jusst fine back in the Roadster era, but it's way too tiny now.

Not the best brand image, either.

 

[catnip]

Permitting in China - "okay how much do you have to invest? Okay we'll fill in this lake, clear cut these woods and get those homes moved for you next week. Pay your bribe at the party office, see you next week. Rubber Stamp."

Permitting in Canada - " conduct a environmental assessment, fill these forms submit detailed drawings in quadruplicate, no not those ones, start again, get an engineer, architect, contractor, lawyer, ministry of transport, ministry of environment, ESA, tssa, local hydro company, your MP and MPP to sign it in person. Pay the permit fees and wait 8 months, if we haven't misplaced your applications by then we'll get to it at our earliest convenience...er I mean our convenience. "

Oh, My, as an environmental conscious company, I didn't know Tesla did such an evil deed in China, so which lake did they filled up and how many homes & families were forced out to make way for the Supercharger locations. I can see this will be a great smearing campaign from the ICE auto-makers, was it ever on the news?
With the abundance number of Superchargers in Norway, I wonder How much $$$ Tesla bribed the Norwegian officials as well .......... ???

 

[sitter_k]

Oh, My, as an environmental conscious company, I didn't know Tesla did such an evil deed in China, so which lake did they filled up and how many homes & families were forced out to make way for the Supercharger locations. I can see this will be a great smearing campaign from the ICE auto-makers, was it ever on the news?
With the abundance number of Superchargers in Norway, I wonder How much $$$ Tesla bribed the Norwegian officials as well .......... ???

Uhh are you serious?

 

[Doug_G]

Oh, My, as an environmental conscious company, I didn't know Tesla did such an evil deed in China, so which lake did they filled up and how many homes & families were forced out to make way for the Supercharger locations. I can see this will be a great smearing campaign from the ICE auto-makers, was it ever on the news?
With the abundance number of Superchargers in Norway, I wonder How much $$$ Tesla bribed the Norwegian officials as well .......... ???

Uh, catnip, pretty sure that was a joke...

 

[sandpiper]

Uh, catnip, pretty sure that was a joke...

I think Catnip was joking as well. .

 

[blackscraper]

Whatever it is, why building something is quite difficult here?! The other day, I was watching a documentary. In the documentary, I was amazed to find that Shanghai had built 345KM of subway in 8 years. And while I live in Richmond hill and commute to downtown everyday, given Shanghai has drastically worse underground condition, much more populous and many more highrises, I can certainly express my disappointment why a 7KM Yonge-University-Spadina extension took years to complete and still behind schedule? What even baffles me more is the construction cost less than half while those contractors are using most advanced machinery which they can't even make now.

Don't whine about lack of superchargers, we have too many political things and red tapes here.

Are we still a first class country? At least while I was reading the forum, I doubted so.

People here on the forum are elites of Canada, maybe we can and should do something.

 

[sandpiper]

Whatever it is, why building something is quite difficult here?! The other day, I was watching a documentary. In the documentary, I was amazed to find that Shanghai had built 345KM of subway in 8 years. And while I live in Richmond hill and commute to downtown everyday, given Shanghai has drastically worse underground condition, much more populous and many more highrises, I can certainly express my disappointment why a 7KM Yonge-University-Spadina extension took years to complete and still behind schedule? What even baffles me more is the construction cost less than half while those contractors are using most advanced machinery which they can't even make now.

Don't whine about lack of superchargers, we have too many political things and red tapes here.

Are we still a first class country? At least while I was reading the forum, I doubted so.

People here on the forum are elites of Canada, maybe we can and should do something.

Have you been to China and watched any of the projects in progress? I have, and the answer is simple:

1. The have a ENORMOUS PILE of unskilled labour that gets paid essentially nothing. Think, small armies of older women carrying buckets on their shoulders to transport concrete. And thousands of people with hand-shovels moving dirt. If a few die here and there - well, there are a lot more where they came from. Life is very very cheap there. Sure they have some advanced machines there that are mainly for show - for local government official photo ops. Most of the time they don't work because they don't know how to maintain any of them. And once the cameras go away, the armies of peasants with pick-axes return to get the real job done.

2. Their permitting process makes the Montreal/Quebec fiasco look squeaky clean. Corruption is endemic and if you have the right connections there is no need to worry about permitting, environmental issues, relocating the poor, whatever. Pay the right people and do what you want to do.

3. There, most major work is done by pseudo-government enterprises. They don't have to worry about making a profit and can always go back to the well. It's always easier to get a project done on schedule if you don't worry about the price.

I'm not saying that we couldn't stand some improvement here and I'm not a fan of bureaucracy. But I certainly don't want what they have in China and wouldn't hold them up as a model.

Personally think that all of those Chinese chickens are going to come home to roost within the next decade. There is a lot of construction taking place there that makes no sense at all and only happens because the right person at the bank or within the party gets the right inducements. Walk down the street in a lot of the tier 2 cities. You'll see a lot of big buildings that are completely vacant. That can't last forever.

 

[blackscraper]

Have you been to China and watched any of the projects in progress? I have, and the answer is simple:

1. The have a ENORMOUS PILE of unskilled labour that gets paid essentially nothing. Think, small armies of older women carrying buckets on their shoulders to transport concrete. And thousands of people with hand-shovels moving dirt. If a few die here and there - well, there are a lot more where they came from. Life is very very cheap there. Sure they have some advanced machines there that are mainly for show - for local government official photo ops. Most of the time they don't work because they don't know how to maintain any of them. And once the cameras go away, the armies of peasants with pick-axes return to get the real job done.

2. Their permitting process makes the Montreal/Quebec fiasco look squeaky clean. Corruption is endemic and if you have the right connections there is no need to worry about permitting, environmental issues, relocating the poor, whatever. Pay the right people and do what you want to do.

3. There, most major work is done by pseudo-government enterprises. They don't have to worry about making a profit and can always go back to the well. It's always easier to get a project done on schedule if you don't worry about the price.

I'm not saying that we couldn't stand some improvement here and I'm not a fan of bureaucracy. But I certainly don't want what they have in China and wouldn't hold them up as a model.

Personally think that all of those Chinese chickens are going to come home to roost within the next decade. There is a lot of construction taking place there that makes no sense at all and only happens because the right person at the bank or within the party gets the right inducements. Walk down the street in a lot of the tier 2 cities. You'll see a lot of big buildings that are completely vacant. That can't last forever.

Well, actually I was born in Shanghai and immigrated from there yeas ago. I had been living in Shanghai during 2011 for a prolonged time. I tend to agree with you on your claims, but only to some extent. Yes, there is dirt cheap labor which are only paid a fraction of what here the contractors are getting. But in Shanghai, such things have become or are becoming a past. As a person who was born and had lived there for almost 30 years, I saw the booming of this city. It has about 20 million permanent residents and another several million migrating residents. Yes, 20 years ago, what you have said was true. Several years ago, partly true in Shanghai, now I really doubt so. The labor there is no longer cheap, they are well trained. The living standard there is longer substandard. My friends (actually, years ago, I) own or co-own construction companies and know the details. They bid for the government contracts, they need profit to survive. They have very skilled employees who are paid well.

One thing is true though, corruption. Another thing is also true, most construction companies who get such contracts are government owned. But here, as far as I know, majority of municipality construction contracts are also awarded because of "networking".

You can't justify the price difference just by private cooperation profits. You can't justify the speed difference because of the enormous "unskilled" labor.

Clean or not, they are moving way faster than us. corrupt or not, they build things. I'd rather see some corruption here and there than let skilled labor sit there and do nothing.

We just waste too much time and money fighting the red tapes.

 

[catnip]

If sitter K was making a joke, I am not laughing. I was being sarcastic to make a point.
My point is: This is a site for the Tesla Supercharger in Eastern Canada, so lets concentrate on that and stop the racial (country & political- wise) bashing.