Eastern Canada Superchargers

[wayner]

I think we are getting about greedy as some of these parts of Canada have barely enough people to justify gas stations, never mind SCs. Tesla exists to earn a profit for its shareholders so installing SCs in Wawa or Longlac makes no sense unless everyone in the country drives a Tesla.

I love my Tesla, but I have zero interest in driving across the country. I worked installing Fibre Optic Transmission lines between North Bay and Thunder Bay over 25 years ago and I have driven across Canada and the US in the back of a station wagon as a kid. If I can afford to pay $100k+ for a car then I can afford to fly when I want to travel long distances.

So put 100 SCs in Southern Ontario before you put one north of North Bay.

 

[Forty Creek]

Completing the Trans Canada Highway would have a huge impact from a marketing point of view. Makes little practical sense today, but I think Tesla installs many of the SC's for reasons of perception. Imagine the impact if you could tell the Canadian market that these cars could be driven coast to coast in Canada on the network.... for 'free'.

 

[rapoport3a]

As someone noted, the TC Hwy is so little used and the Canadian market so small in central/northern Ontario and the prairies that I think it would hardly notice. Unless the plan is for Model Xs and Model 3s to become wildly popular…Great news about Comber, though. Here's hoping it's true.

I did think private monopolies charge outrageous prices more often than governments. Although there may be exceptions, I don't think 407 is one.

 

[sitter_k]

Completing the Trans Canada Highway would have a huge impact from a marketing point of view. Makes little practical sense today, but I think Tesla installs many of the SC's for reasons of perception. Imagine the impact if you could tell the Canadian market that these cars could be driven coast to coast in Canada on the network.... for 'free'.

generally I think Canadians drive in and out of our major centres, or to the U.S. more than coast to coast north of the 49th.

 

[PoweredByRain]

I think we are getting about greedy as some of these parts of Canada have barely enough people to justify gas stations, never mind SCs. Tesla exists to earn a profit for its shareholders so installing SCs in Wawa or Longlac makes no sense unless everyone in the country drives a Tesla.

I love my Tesla, but I have zero interest in driving across the country. I worked installing Fibre Optic Transmission lines between North Bay and Thunder Bay over 25 years ago and I have driven across Canada and the US in the back of a station wagon as a kid. If I can afford to pay $100k+ for a car then I can afford to fly when I want to travel long distances.

So put 100 SCs in Southern Ontario before you put one north of North Bay.

That's rich! 100 SCs in Southern Ontario and we're the ones being greedy?

As others have pointed out, completing the Trans Canada Highway would be smart from a marketing point of view. Telling Canadians that they're covered, except... oh, you have to travel into the United States... is obnoxious.

By your logic there shouldn't be Superchargers in South Dakota.

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I would also point out that Tesla plans to put Superchargers across North Dakota as well, connecting places that are already connected if you just went south to I-90. You're ok with that, while the Trans-Canada across the prairies just to the north gets el zippo? Tesla has put Superchargers across Kansas too. Again, you could always go to I-90. Tesla has put in Superchargers across the Nevada desert - again, not needed, you could go down towards LA then across through Las Vegas and up through Utah to get to Salt Lake City.

Do you get the point yet? The places BETWEEN the populated centres tend to be... not... populated.

 

[sandpiper]

That's rich! 100 SCs in Southern Ontario and we're the ones being greedy?

As others have pointed out, completing the Trans Canada Highway would be smart from a marketing point of view. Telling Canadians that they're covered, except... oh, you have to travel into the United States... is obnoxious.

By your logic there shouldn't be Superchargers in South Dakota.

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I would also point out that Tesla plans to put Superchargers across North Dakota as well, connecting places that are already connected if you just went south to I-90. You're ok with that, while the Trans-Canada across the prairies just to the north gets el zippo? Tesla has put Superchargers across Kansas too. Again, you could always go to I-90. Tesla has put in Superchargers across the Nevada desert - again, not needed, you could go down towards LA then across through Las Vegas and up through Utah to get to Salt Lake City.

Do you get the point yet? The places BETWEEN the populated centres tend to be... not... populated.

I wonder how much could be done using simple 2 station superchargers in less populous areas? I can't see a reason why these things couldn't be completely factory built on a skid, dropped on a concrete pad and hooked up to a 13kV line. They shouldn't be that expensive.

I suspect that there is a long term plan to go across Canada on the TC. Certainly things will change with a million model 3s running around. But us a medium term fix I think a lot could be practically done using the following routing that I've taken previously across the country.

1. Finish up the Quebec City to Halifax run. This is mostly already covered in the 2016 map, except for the final run to Halifax (which HAS to be planned)

2. Add in Ottawa to SS Marie. North Bay and Sudbury are already in the 2016 map.

3. Dip into the US, south of Lake Superior on hwy 28 to Duluth. Yes this cuts out Thunder Bay.

4. Follow highway 2 up to Bismarck.

5. From there on in, up to Winnipeg (already planned) and across the rest of the country on Hwy 1 (and this MUST be already planned)

Ok, it's not a completely Canadian run. But it's close. It hits most of the population centers in the country, and those that it doesn't hit could usually be tied into the grid with one SC.

 

[mknox]

Imagine the impact if you could tell the Canadian market that these cars could be driven coast to coast in Canada on the network.... for 'free'.

Well, to be fair, that was Sun Country Highway's goal... which was realized a couple of years ago. Not Superchargers, but you can drive an EV coast to coast on the TCH.

 

[PoweredByRain]

I wonder how much could be done using simple 2 station superchargers in less populous areas? I can't see a reason why these things couldn't be completely factory built on a skid, dropped on a concrete pad and hooked up to a 13kV line. They shouldn't be that expensive.

This has been discussed before - it seems clear that the problem is getting agreement for a location to host the Supercharger, it's not a question of expense. Something similar to what you describe, by the way, does exist - they are called "temporary" Superchargers. See this thread for the example installed in Kingston.

I suspect that there is a long term plan to go across Canada on the TC. Certainly things will change with a million model 3s running around. But us a medium term fix I think a lot could be practically done using the following routing that I've taken previously across the country.

1. Finish up the Quebec City to Halifax run. This is mostly already covered in the 2016 map, except for the final run to Halifax (which HAS to be planned)

2. Add in Ottawa to SS Marie. North Bay and Sudbury are already in the 2016 map.

3. Dip into the US, south of Lake Superior on hwy 28 to Duluth. Yes this cuts out Thunder Bay.

4. Follow highway 2 up to Bismarck.

5. From there on in, up to Winnipeg (already planned) and across the rest of the country on Hwy 1 (and this MUST be already planned)

Ok, it's not a completely Canadian run. But it's close. It hits most of the population centers in the country, and those that it doesn't hit could usually be tied into the grid with one SC.

The route you describe is what I was proposing as well. Sault Ste Marie to the Maritimes (ideally Newfoundland as well), plus Winnipeg west (including one on Vancouver Island). I think you'd only need 6 or so from Calgary to Winnipeg, two or three in Ontario, and 5 or 6 east of Quebec city. Plus one on Vancouver Island and you're at 16 tops.

With the Model 3 supposedly coming in 2017, to not have even that much planned by then I think is a mistake.

 

[Forty Creek]

Well, to be fair, that was Sun Country Highway's goal... which was realized a couple of years ago. Not Superchargers, but you can drive an EV coast to coast on the TCH.

Kuddos to Sun Country for sure. The impact I am thinking of would be on Tesla's potential market. Fast charging that spans the country would IMHO, have a positive psychological effect on many people. Consumers just want to know that "they could" drive across our country conveniently in a Tesla, even if they never actually do it. The only way all of those super chargers make sense today is from a marketing standpoint.

 

[PoweredByRain]

Well, to be fair, that was Sun Country Highway's goal... which was realized a couple of years ago. Not Superchargers, but you can drive an EV coast to coast on the TCH.

The criteria of "capable of driving coast to coast" was met the moment an EV was produced, because there are electrical outlets all across the country. This is far too low a bar to set.

Even if every Sun Country charger was 80 A - which they aren't - that's 5 hours of charging for every 4 hours of driving. And what do you do when one critical charger is not working? This has been the case more than once. Now you're looking at possibly a two day stay on 120V to be able to go another 400 km.

Sure. Yup. You can drive an EV across Canada. But you'd better be prepared for it to take weeks. If they were to suggest this as a feasible option when trying to sell Model 3s to people in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, they would be laughed at.

 

[Peter_M]

To rephrase what others are saying about the Trans Canada Highway: 95% of a typical driver's trips are well within the range of the Model S's battery, and arguably 95% of the other 5% of trips will be within the range of superchargers within a couple of years. Driving the TCH for most Canadians is done once in a lifetime, if that. BUT, what question do we all get first from non-EV-owners? "How far can you go on a charge?" They focus on the 5% case, and here we're focusing on the 5% of 5% case, but it still matters psychologically to be able to say you COULD drive across Canada with fast charging, for free.

For me, I doubt I'll ever do the TCH drive, but I also expect the TCH will be covered by superchargers eventually. Remember that the planning horizon we can see on the maps is less than 2 years out. I doubt all of the "2016" stations will get done in 2016, but I fully expect all of those and MANY more to be done in 5 years. Just projecting out the current pace of about 300 stations worldwide per year gives amazing coverage in 5 years, and they will probably accelerate.

 

[sandpiper]

To rephrase what others are saying about the Trans Canada Highway: 95% of a typical driver's trips are well within the range of the Model S's battery, and arguably 95% of the other 5% of trips will be within the range of superchargers within a couple of years. Driving the TCH for most Canadians is done once in a lifetime, if that. BUT, what question do we all get first from non-EV-owners? "How far can you go on a charge?" They focus on the 5% case, and here we're focusing on the 5% of 5% case, but it still matters psychologically to be able to say you COULD drive across Canada with fast charging, for free.

For me, I doubt I'll ever do the TCH drive, but I also expect the TCH will be covered by superchargers eventually. Remember that the planning horizon we can see on the maps is less than 2 years out. I doubt all of the "2016" stations will get done in 2016, but I fully expect all of those and MANY more to be done in 5 years. Just projecting out the current pace of about 300 stations worldwide per year gives amazing coverage in 5 years, and they will probably accelerate.

It will accelerate if another EV builder gets on board. Given the overwhelming superiority of the TESLA network, I struggle to believe that any prospective builder of a 250 mile EV wouldn't want to be part of it. It's almost a necessity I would say.

 

[LazMan]

Word From Tesla is that Comber will be active this week

I have to go to Windsor in a few weeks. I hope this week means this week.

 

[wolfpet]

So put 100 SCs in Southern Ontario before you put one north of North Bay.

completely agree!

 

[Forty Creek]

The criteria of "capable of driving coast to coast" was met the moment an EV was produced, because there are electrical outlets all across the country. This is far too low a bar to set. (snip)

Just as the completion of the railway was an important accomplishment in Canada.... instead of Pierre Berton's The Last Spike, we may one day have Elon Musk's The Last Spark.

 

[Doug_G]

I've moved a couple of posts to snippiness

Insulting regions of the country is a very thin proxy for insulting other members. Not allowed under forum rules.

Attack the point, not the person.

 

[Jaff]

At the very worst, start the East coast in N.S. ...the reason I say this is that I have driven my Roadster out to P.E.I. (which I would highly recommend as it's a beautiful Province to drive around in...), and you can literally drive around the entire Province in one day so Supercharging would likely be overkill...jmo

I haven't been to Newfoundland, but would like to take the car over by ferry someday...I'm sure the size of Newfoundland would justify a Supercharger...not sure when there would be enough demand for one though.

And, when retired, I would definitely like to drive across Canada to the west coast...I think driving across Canada will be a priority and will help sales of the Gen III...

Where does the East coast start? Arguably Quebec City. The way I see it the bigger problem in getting "a mare usque ad mare" is more from North Bay to Calgary.

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Completing the Trans Canada Highway would have a huge impact from a marketing point of view. Makes little practical sense today, but I think Tesla installs many of the SC's for reasons of perception. Imagine the impact if you could tell the Canadian market that these cars could be driven coast to coast in Canada on the network.... for 'free'.

This ^^^, in spades!

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As others have pointed out, completing the Trans Canada Highway would be smart from a marketing point of view. Telling Canadians that they're covered, except... oh, you have to travel into the United States... /QUOTE]

Agree completely! As a Canadian, this is unacceptable...

 

[Airwolf]

I think we are getting about greedy as some of these parts of Canada have barely enough people to justify gas stations, never mind SCs. Tesla exists to earn a profit for its shareholders so installing SCs in Wawa or Longlac makes no sense unless everyone in the country drives a Tesla.

I love my Tesla, but I have zero interest in driving across the country. I worked installing Fibre Optic Transmission lines between North Bay and Thunder Bay over 25 years ago and I have driven across Canada and the US in the back of a station wagon as a kid. If I can afford to pay $100k+ for a car then I can afford to fly when I want to travel long distances.

So put 100 SCs in Southern Ontario before you put one north of North Bay.

Wow! Thats a little strong Wayner don't you think? A lot of us go to North Bay, Sudbury, Parry sound and the Soo for work in Winter and summer and it would be a nice drive in the Tesla. Their plans for next year are for SC's in North Bay and Sudbury and hopefully further along in 2017. I think with Comber and Drummondville nearly ready and perhaps another located around Cobourg, Ottawa, and Riviere de Loup, the Detroit-Qc.City corridor, busiest in Canada will be done. I don't see a need for more at the moment. They need to concentrate on the northerly places next such as Mont Laurier, Chicoutimi, Mont Tremblant, Alma, Val'D'or, Timmins etc. next.

 

[Klaw21]

I have to go to Windsor in a few weeks. I hope this week means this week.

Comber is now live

 

[mrElbe]

Comber is now live

Great! I'll need it for the Tesla "Sound of Silence" trip to Custer, SD middle of May.