Electrician installed Wall Connector at 50a, do I have him redo?

[Nels]

Electrical company recommended to me by a friend that had 14-50 installed at an extremely reasonable price. Sent them the photo of the Tesla WC, said no problem---$40 more than 14-50. When the electrician arrived, he unboxed and started reading the instructions. When I expressed concern, he assured me he even recently installed charging stations at the local Nissan dealership.

After installation, unit was charging at 11MPH. Knew this wasn't right, so did a search, read the manual and had him set the dial for the 50a breaker he installed. I know nothing about wiring but mentioned that I thought it was supposed to be 60a. After that, it was charging at 37MPH at 40a, so thought we were good. Read some more last night and 60a was indeed recommended to charge at 48a/44MPH.

As background, I drive about 30 miles round trip a day back and forth to work. Weekends may do 120-150 miles round trip if we take a day trip. Do I bother having him return and change to 60a to get another 7MPH? If it makes any difference, he used the box powered by a Generex home generator, the other box was further away.
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[Baked76]

I kept mine at 50A and it works great.

 

[VT_EE]

Electrical company recommended to me by a friend that had 14-50 installed at an extremely reasonable price. Sent them the photo of the Tesla WC, said no problem---$40 more than 14-50. When the electrician arrived, he unboxed and started reading the instructions. When I expressed concern, he assured me he even recently installed charging stations at the local Nissan dealership.

After installation, unit was charging at 11MPH. Knew this wasn't right, so did a search, read the manual and had him set the dial for the 50a breaker he installed. I know nothing about wiring but mentioned that I thought it was supposed to be 60a. After that, it was charging at 37MPH at 40a, so thought we were good. Read some more last night and 60a was indeed recommended to charge at 48a/44MPH.

As background, I drive about 30 miles round trip a day back and forth to work. Weekends may do 120-150 miles round trip if we take a day trip. Do I bother having him return and change to 60a to get another 7MPH? If it makes any difference, he used the box powered by a Generex home generator, the other box was further away.
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Make sure the wire he used is rated for 48amp continuous loads if you want him to increase it. The breaker size might be a little higher than the wire can support if the wire spec fell in between breaker sizes.

 

[jmaddr]

The amperage is determined buy the wiring guage as well as the circuit breaker size (and length of circuit, junctions, and a few more things). If the circuit is not rated at 60a, he *may* not be able to just raise the breaker. Running a 50a circuit can be less than a 60a circuit due to the wiring size though admittedly the bulk of the cost is the labor. I do think it’s worth a call to see if your particular installation can handle 60a. A breaker cost little to nothing.

BTW, if it isn’t rated for 60a, it’s certainly not the end of the world. With your driving habits you will do just fine with 50a.

 

[jjrandorin]

Op depends on what you expressed you wanted (and whats on the receipt). First of all, the difference in charging speed between a 50amp and 60 amp circuit is not going to change your daily commute / usage / live one single bit.

With that being said, if you expected to be able to "charge at the maximum speed your car will take" and you thought you were paying for a 60amp circuit so that you could charge at 48amps, then yes I would have the electrician come back. They may or may not have used a large enough wire gauge to do so, as well.

You would need to ask (and get them to put in writing) that the wiring they installed will support a 60 amp circuit with a 48amp continuous load. Its possible (likely) they sized the wiring for the circuit they put in, to save money.

TL ; DR version... if you paid for and expected 60 amps make the electrician come back. Also make them come back if you "want the charging speed". Just because you dont "need" for it to charge at the faster speed does NOT mean you are "wrong" if you just "want it".

Having the ability to charge fast, helps many people go a long way in solving initial range anxiety. So... certainly not "needed" at all for your usage, but if you want it, or paid for it, make the electrician come back.

 

[ewoodrick]

50A breaker means 40A charging (Reduction to 80% required because it is a continuous load).

I'm charging off of a 32A UMC and it is quite sufficient. A 150 mph trip only take a few hours.

Range anxiety, time to relax.

 

[jebinc]

Electrical company recommended to me by a friend that had 14-50 installed at an extremely reasonable price. Sent them the photo of the Tesla WC, said no problem---$40 more than 14-50. When the electrician arrived, he unboxed and started reading the instructions. When I expressed concern, he assured me he even recently installed charging stations at the local Nissan dealership.

After installation, unit was charging at 11MPH. Knew this wasn't right, so did a search, read the manual and had him set the dial for the 50a breaker he installed. I know nothing about wiring but mentioned that I thought it was supposed to be 60a. After that, it was charging at 37MPH at 40a, so thought we were good. Read some more last night and 60a was indeed recommended to charge at 48a/44MPH.

As background, I drive about 30 miles round trip a day back and forth to work. Weekends may do 120-150 miles round trip if we take a day trip. Do I bother having him return and change to 60a to get another 7MPH? If it makes any difference, he used the box powered by a Generex home generator, the other box was further away.
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I would (call him back) if you expected, communicated and paid for full use of the HPWC @ 48amps. If you did, then I suspect he pocketed a ton of profit by using 8 AWG wire instead of 4 AWG (or 6 AWG), depending on how long the run was from your box to the HPWC. However, since you said he only charged you $50 more then putting in an outlet, I suspect he had always intended to install the HPWC on a 50 amp circuit, as that's what the NEMA 14-50 outlet is on. He also probably used the lighter AWG wire that's code for a 50 amp circuit. So, it sounds like you got what you paid for, a 50 amp charging circuit using a HPWC rather than a NEMA 14-50 outlet and your mobile charger. You could just call him and ask what gauge wire he used (I suspect 8 AWG) and if the wire he installed can support a 60 amp circuit (per code), what would he want to swap out the breaker (a really easy task) and change the setting on the HPWC (another super easy task). The key here is to know what gauge wire was used...

 

[Nels]

I would (call him back) if you expected, communicated and paid for full use of the HPWC @ 48amps. If you did, then I suspect he pocketed a ton of profit by using 8 AWG wire instead of 4 AWG (or 6 AWG), depending on how long the run was from your box to the HPWC. However, since you said he only charged you $50 more then putting in an outlet, I suspect he had always intended to install the HPWC on a 50 amp circuit, as that's what the NEMA 14-50 outlet is on. He also probably used the lighter AWG wire that's code for a 50 amp circuit. So, it sounds like you got what you paid for, a 50 amp charging circuit using a HPWC rather than a NEMA 14-50 outlet and your mobile charger. You could just call him and ask what gauge wire he used (I suspect 8 AWG) and if the wire he installed can support a 60 amp circuit (per code), what would he want to swap out the breaker (a really easy task) and change the setting on the HPWC (another super easy task). The key here is to know what gauge wire was used...

I only sent him the link to the wall connector and asked if he had experience hooking them up. He said "no problem", quoted me the price, and I scheduled it. May just let it go unless he does any follow up. My wife wants to have them back to do a few things around the house, so may bring it up then.

 

[jebinc]

I only sent him the link to the wall connector and asked if he had experience hooking them up. He said "no problem", quoted me the price, and I scheduled it. May just let it go unless he does any follow up. My wife wants to have them back to do a few things around the house, so may bring it up then.

Cost you nothing to ask him what wire he used, etc. you wouldn't be demanding anything, just inquiring. you can then make a decision once you have the requisite additional information.

 

[GWord]

He probably used NM-B 6awg wire which is common for a 50A branch circuit. Technically 90degC rated 6awg wire is good for a 60A breaker but the National Electric Code derates NM cable to the 60degC rating which is 50A. Long story short, 50A would be appropriate if he used NM-B wire.

 

[Rambeaux]

I have a 50A breaker for my model 3 LR - for my typical daily use, charging the battery 10% the difference is 5-10 minutes. For my maximum use case charging 80% from 10-80, it takes 6 hrs instead of 5. I don't think there is any practical difference.

In my case I had a fairly large panel with no spare slots for circuit breakers. The electrician I called looked at it and his recommendation was I had a 30 amp dryer circuit I wasn't using - he suggested disconnecting the dryer, leaving the wires in case I ever want to put the service back, and taking the spot in the panel for a 50 amp breaker. I agreed - and didn't realize until later that I could have used up to 60 amps. I'm not sure if there was a reason for the 50 or if the electrician was just used to installing the connector's for earlier Tesla's that couldn't use more...

 

[Big Dog]

it all depends on what you contracted him to do. I specifically directed my local electrician to install a 60 amp breaker and cable so I could charge at 48 amps.

If his estimate was for a 50 amp cable and breaker, then you got what you paid for. Your daily driving doesn't seem to warrant paying him to come out a second time. Not worth it, IMO.

 

[wwu123]

I don 't really get this thread at all, as just sending the electrician the HPWC documentation doesn't help determine the installation - the HPWC can do up to 100A , 80A continouous. Moreover the electrician likely has no clue the car has 48A max limit. If the electrician quoted install as $40 more than 14-50, then likely both quotes were implied to be 50A breaker.

 

[jebinc]

I don 't really get this thread at all, as just sending the electrician the HPWC documentation doesn't help determine the installation - the HPWC can do up to 100A , 80A continouous. Moreover the electrician likely has no clue the car has 48A max limit. If the electrician quoted install as $40 more than 14-50, then likely both quotes were implied to be 50A breaker.

Agreed! "If" the OP was looking for 48 amps charging on a 60 amp circuit, they should have been clear with the electrician on that requirement up front. Being that didn't happen, the next step would just be to ask the electrician if the wire he used would support a 60 amp circuit. If yes, then the OP could see what said electrician would want to come out just to swap the breaker and change the HPWC setting. The OP mentions the electrician was coming back anyway to do some other stuff around the house, so he/she might swap the breaker to 60 amps for free - since he/she is already at the house for other "paid" work. Cost nothing to ask, politely.

 

[Akikiki]

Nels, everything everyone here has said makes good sense, doesn't it? (Does to me.) You say that you may need to charge for a 150 mile drive, and 30 daily. If you have not already, you will soon discover you don't need to charge every night weekdays to have enough range for a daily drive. Doing the math on how fast you charge now, that 150 charge will take a little over 4 hours, right? So, if you plug in and begin charging by 10:00 p.m.-12:00 a.m., you will always have a "full tank", before daylight, right? Isn't that what matters 99% of the time?

 

[jebinc]

Nels, everything everyone here has said makes good sense, doesn't it? (Does to me.) You say that you may need to charge for a 150 mile drive, and 30 daily. If you have not already, you will soon discover you don't need to charge every night weekdays to have enough range for a daily drive. Doing the math on how fast you charge now, that 150 charge will take a little over 4 hours, right? So, if you plug in and begin charging by 10:00 p.m.-12:00 a.m., you will always have a "full tank", before daylight, right? Isn't that what matters 99% of the time?

Agreed, but if all @Nels needs is to swap out a $10 50 amp breaker with a $10 60 amp breaker, why not get the full 48 amps out of the HPWC - especially if you forget to charge or decide you want a little more range, quickly? For $10, wouldn't it be worth it? To find out, all @Nels has to do is confirm with the electrician that the wire used can support a 60 amp circuit - Heck, @Nels could even change the HPWC setting him/herself. Takes maybe five minutes?

Now, if the wire used can't support 60 amps, then I would likely not bother - unless the HPWC is next to the main panel (very short wire run to replace).

 

[Akikiki]

jebinc, I agree with you.

 

[jebinc]

jebinc, I agree with you.

Once confirming from the electrician that the wire can support 60 amps, another option (if @Nels doesn't like the upgrade price) is to swap the breaker themselves - assuming they have experience and a good understanding of electrical work - and use all necessary protective equipment and safety procedures.

 

[Nels]

Agreed! "If" the OP was looking for 48 amps charging on a 60 amp circuit, they should have been clear with the electrician on that requirement up front. Being that didn't happen, the next step would just be to ask the electrician if the wire he used would support a 60 amp circuit. If yes, then the OP could see what said electrician would want to come out just to swap the breaker and change the HPWC setting. The OP mentions the electrician was coming back anyway to do some other stuff around the house, so he/she might swap the breaker to 60 amps for free - since he/she is already at the house for other "paid" work. Cost nothing to ask, politely.

Assumed the professional, supposedly with experience would know what’s needed, so I didn’t specify (nor did I know—I just opened the box to make sure the hose length was correct). As others said, not a big deal either way. As you suggested, though, I’ll probably ask if they’re coming back anyway.

 

[srs5694]

Electrical company recommended to me by a friend that had 14-50 installed at an extremely reasonable price. Sent them the photo of the Tesla WC, said no problem---$40 more than 14-50. When the electrician arrived, he unboxed and started reading the instructions. When I expressed concern, he assured me he even recently installed charging stations at the local Nissan dealership.

In my experience, the Level 2 EVSEs at Nissan dealerships are Nissan-branded Aerovironment units that are capable of delivering 30A to cars. Most non-Tesla Level 2 EVSEs top out at either 30A or 32A, although a few go as high as 40A (eMotorWerks' JuiceBox springs to mind), 48A (some high-end Clipper Creek units can do this), or possibly higher. The point, though, is that an electrician familiar with non-Tesla EVSEs might have been assuming the device would be running at no more than 32A, and given you a quote based on that assumption. Tesla's Wall Connector is rather unusual in that it has a dial to set its amperage to a variety of levels. I'm pretty sure I've heard of one or two other EVSEs with this feature, but it is an unusual one, so unless an electrician was familiar with Tesla's Wall Connector specifically, it's understandable that the electrician wouldn't know about this feature before diving into the documentation in depth.

Since your friend had a NEMA 14-50 plug installed, it's also possible that the electrician used this as a baseline, if you mentioned your friend as the referral source. He might also have taken away from that experience that Teslas can charge at up to 40A and require a 50A circuit. That isn't really accurate, but I could see an electrician making that assumption. It's also consistent with the circuit the electrician seems to have installed.

Assumed the professional, supposedly with experience would know what’s needed, so I didn’t specify (nor did I know—I just opened the box to make sure the hose length was correct). As others said, not a big deal either way. As you suggested, though, I’ll probably ask if they’re coming back anyway.

I think you're learning that EVSEs vary a lot from one to another. A good electrician should either know this or notice from the Tesla Wall Connector's documentation that it can be set to a variety of amperages, and ask you what amperage you want. It sounds like your electrician wasn't an expert on EVSEs and didn't notice that detail about the Tesla unit -- the fact that it was set for a low amperage proves that he either didn't notice that part of the instructions or forgot to set the little dial in the unit.

Note that a NEMA 14-50 is, by definition, intended to be connected to a 50A breaker, with suitable wiring between the two. There's no equivalent to the Wall Connector's dial to set its amperage. Thus, the electrician's experience installing your friend's NEMA 14-50 outlet wouldn't help him with the Wall Connector's design feature of working at multiple amperages. I'm pretty sure that most EVSEs aren't adjustable, either -- they're designed to work at a fixed amperage. (This amperage can be dropped upon negotiation with the car, but the electrician doesn't need to be concerned with this detail.)

Overall, I agree with others that it's probably not worth the bother of upgrading the installation to a higher amperage, especially if the existing wiring is only suitable for a 50A (40A continuous) circuit. If the wiring isn't up to handling higher amperage, then new wiring would have to be run, which means it'd basically be a completely new installation.

The upside to this: Your electrician learned more about EVSEs, and Tesla's Wall Connector specifically, and so might be more likely to ask future customers what amperage they want to use.