SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The entire 14-x series of receptacles have a grounded conductor, and for good reason: the vast majority of appliances that are 240v also have a 120v load
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Electrician installed wall connector using Romex 8/3 + 60A breaker
- Thread starter explosive0
- Start date
The entire 14-x series of receptacles have a grounded conductor, and for good reason: the vast majority of appliances that are 240v also have a 120v load
Oh, sorry, I may have missed the whole story here. If there are NEMA-14 series receptacles, then yes, you must absolutely pull a neutral to the panel and to the connected branch circuits. I was thinking it was hardwired EVSE's based on the original post.
davewill
Active Member
No, he was defnitely talking about wall connectors. I have a similar install to his, submeter and load center, however mine goes to a 6-50 outlet. The electrician went ahead and pulled a neutral wire anyway, so I don't have any input to his dilemma.
P.S. When I put in a second EVSE, I really wanted to run both of them through the submeter, however, It would have required rewiring the leg from the main panel to the meter and load center, and replacing the load center (70a) with a bigger one. The extra $700 that was quoted for that wasn't worth it. I wasn't interested in load sharing. Had I looked farther ahead, I could have wired that part for 100a to start with.
The pilot program that required the submeter is long over, so I just have a meter from Hialeah Meters in there, now. Last I checked it had chalked up over 40MW over the last 8-9 years of my personal driving. My wife uses the car on the newer EVSE.
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the exposed wire is running from the basement to the garage... it wont be crazy hot... any way, i will change the charge to max 40amp from tesla app. The inspector came back the 2nd time with some kind of book (some kind of township code) and told me that the Chargepoint EVSE can take only the 6awg and it should be ok to charge at 48amp. Worst case, the charger will shutdown because of the built in GFCI breaker.
Exactly. The sad reality is that something like 80% of the licensed electrician 48A EVSE installs I’ve come across are incorrectly using #6 NM-B on a 60A breaker. Absolutely not code complaint, but also not particularly dangerous for most scenarios. The internal conductors on nm-b are THHN. It’s not like #6 copper THHN conductors magically lose the ability to carry a given current when they’re bundled inside a PVC jacket vs inside a conduit…
NM-B gets the 60degree column because it generally gets installed inside walls, often covered in insulation, eg scenarios where the possibility of heat buildup is much higher than a typical conduit run.
But the fact remains that the actual conductors are identical. So, as far as “dangerous” things go, a 48A continuous load on #6 nm-b is pretty low on my list. I still would personally never do it of course, but if I had such an install I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it
(#8, otoh, per OP’s original post, is completely wrong for 48A continuous and definitely a fair bit more dangerous)
davewill
Active Member
But the fact remains that the actual conductors are identical. So, as far as “dangerous” things go, a 48A continuous load on #6 nm-b is pretty low on my list. I still would personally never do it of course, but if I had such an install I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it
I agree. In the end, If a homeowner hires a professional electrician and the work is permitted and inspected, what else can they do? Most people are not going to come here and research such a question.
i couldnt control the amp from the chargepoint app,. i was able to set the amp to 44 in tesla app.
You can change the amperage setting on the chargepoint by resetting it. IIRC, removing it from your account and re-adding it is sufficient (though you may need to do a factory reset). When you initially add it you can configure the circuit breaker size and max charging current.
When it comes to installing electrical wiring, especially in a home, it really is better to make sure a licensed electrician does it. The problem with having an electrical license is that it doesn’t take too much to get one! You don’t need to have taken any training or even have any formal education. Anyone can have one. This is why you need to make sure your electrician is qualified. The NEC (National Electric Code) is the standard that all electrical workers need to follow.
Do your research bro. You way off.
In Virginia, there are two types of electricians. Journeyman electricians, which are qualified to work by themselves under the supervision of a master electrician, and master electricians, which are able to run their own business.
To be a journeyman electrician, you need to have a high school diploma/ged, Four years of experience and 240 hours of formal vocational training, eg class room hours. Then you have to have a master electrician vouch for you to take a journeyman exam and pass that.
To be a master electrician you need to be a journeyman plus and additional year experience as well as pass another more difficult exam.
After you pass your master electrician liscense, you need to take another separate test to obtain a business license, as well as meet other requirements related to back ground and net worth.
Finally, after you have your license you need to complete three hours of continuing education every two years.
Why? Demand it's done to code or 100% refund. If not, report to the city. If he has to redo a lot of the work, that's his fault for not doing it right the first time.
You cannot change the advertised amperage of any EVSE through the Tesla app. And setting the amperage of the car to something less than advertised by the EVSE is definitely not safe. Those settings can be dumped by the car (especially during an upgrade), would only work for that one vehicle, and the setup is still not code compliant if you do this.
You can't change the configured maximum current through the Tesla app, but you absolutely can configure it for all Tesla wall connectors...
On gen2 and earlier, there is an internal rotary switch you set to configure the charging current. And on gen3, you connect to the wall connector's standalone wifi network and set the correct breaker size (and max charging current) through it's web interface:
I'm aware of that method of configuring the Gen3 WC. But that's very much NOT the Tesla app, which only controls Tesla vehicles. The only way you can control charging current through the app is by instructing the car to throttle charging to less than what the EVSE is advertising, which is not a safe way to limit the current.
Because, you are more likely to get satisfaction that way. You’re a little optimistic. What do you think the city is going to do? Hunt him down and arrest him. LOL! You’re lucky if they even report it in a file somewhere.
If I asked for 48A, I expect 48A. The penalty for not doing something right the first time is having to do it over. And the people with the real power are the people at the state office that manages licenses. If the city inspector won't do anything, you escalate it to that level.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Requirements vary by jurisdiction, but in my corner of the USA years of training followed by a certification exam is required for electrician licensure. A general electrical license that grants the right to bid the job and do the work takes the better part of 10 years.
Posting on the internet is a different matter. Any clown can post whatever BS they feel like.
I have hired electricians from both ends of the competency spectrum. (Someone has to be last in their class.) For some jobs such as installing a new panel or sub panel I would want a Master Electrician to be the one performing the work.
Good electricians do not come cheap; cheap electricians may not perform good work.
Good electricians do not come cheap; cheap electricians may not perform good work.
You are really optimistic. The slim chance of gaining anything by wasting all that energy combined with the small amount of benefit you are going to get makes it not really worth it.
Of course I would ask the guy to fix it, but if he started giving me hassle I would at least Ty to get him to make it code compliant and moved on with my life. Whether you are charging at 32 amps or 48 amps you’ll still get a full charge overnight.
You cannot force the guy to fix it. He won’t want to fix. He probably won’t fix it. You can spend a bunch of time complaining to the city but they are unlikely to investigate. You can appeal to the licensing board but unless there are a lot of simular complaints they aren’t likely to do anything.
Naivety is a beautiful thing.
But it’s still important to have the install code compliant, so ask him to put in a smaller breaker and adjust your evse power output appropriate and get 80 percent of what you wanted.
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Unbelievable. The reason you hire and pay an electrician is to do a certain job, to your specifications. It's your money being spent. If you only wanted 32A worth of charging, you'd have said so. So nope, it gets done to the original specifications or I'm not paying for it.
You sound like the type of person who will let anyone get away with almost anything as long as he or she makes it clear that he or she is going to drag out the process and give you a headache. Well guess what? Once people realize that the person they're dealing with is a pushover, they'll typically double down on their strategy of making it seem like a huge headache in order to weasel out of work that they should be doing.
Overnight charging is not the only scenario that matters. 48A gets you more energy quickly for spontaneous trips and I have needed all 48A at least once or twice.
Sure you can. He was hired to do a certain job. To code. He failed to perform the job as directed.
Of course he'd prefer not to spend time doing a job over. Maybe next time he'll do it right the first time.
No one is going to know how much shoddy work this guy is doing that could end up starting fires unless everyone complains. But I wouldn't just go directly to the city or licensing board, I'd give him a chance to fix it, on the condition that if it's fixed properly, I won't report it. At this point, the path of least resistance for him is to just fix it, instead of potentially dealing with a licensing board complaint that could put his profession at risk.
If he still refuses to fix it, well, work not done to code is an EASY case to win in small claims court. As long as you have documentation of who was responsible, he's going to lose the case. If he refuses to fix it, then hire another electrician to do so, save the receipts, and recover the money in court. Plus, tack on any relevant legal fees to the amount in damages you're claiming.
I once had to take someone to court for work not done to code -- it was the previous owners of a house I bought, who claimed to not know that the contractor they hired didn't do the work to code (I couldn't recover money from the actual contractor because I never had a business relationship with said contractor; only the party that hired the contractor could do that). The previous owners had gotten an attorney to draft several letters to me claiming that they had sold the house as-is (which they're allowed to do, but any issues with work not done to code must be disclosed, and these issues were not), that they weren't responsible, that they didn't know the work wasn't code compliant, that I should go after the contractor directly, and even offered to pay me about 15% of the actual damages "to make this issue go away", on the condition that I sign a piece of paper releasing them from liability. In the end, they traveled more than 150 miles and showed up in court, only to be ordered to pay me 100% of the money I was asking for. I'm not sure what kind of advice they were getting from their attorney -- if he was a competent attorney, he had to know that there was no way they'd win the case. Only thing that makes sense is that he was trying to find out if I was going to be a pushover and they thought they could get away with it. Their entire message seemed to be "You can pursue this, but there's no guarantee you'll win, and it will be messy, long, and expensive". Oops...it was none of the above. They found out that work not done to code is pretty much an open and shut case, and if they spent as much effort going after the contractor who harmed them as they did trying to weasel out of paying me, they'd have a pretty good chance at getting their money back.
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