Electrify America general discussion

[cwerdna]

Tesla didn't make this mistake, and instead had overcapacity when they build their chargers. It was pretty common for me to be the only one charging at an 8+ stall site.

There have been documented cases (some well-documented) where there wasn't enough on holidays, special occasions on busy travel corridors like these:

Photos showed Tesla Supercharger stations faced long lines during holiday travel, revealing a big hurdle for EV makers

Tesla Supercharger stations throughout the West Coast were overwhelmed over the holiday, and some drivers complained on Twitter and YouTube.

www.businessinsider.com

15 cars in line, 2 hour wait

Corning Supercharger Yeah and I'm last...

teslamotorsclub.com

The holidays are hard on Tesla's Superchargers, long lines reported, Barstow broken again [Updated]

There’ve been a lot of talks lately about the upcoming Supercharger V3 having a significantly higher charge rate, and while it...

electrek.co

From what I've seen at the two closest EA DC FC sites, near home, they were way over capacity. There's a 3rd one closer to home and I almost never see anyone there.

Walmart Supercenter | PlugShare has 12 stations.
Westfield Valley Fair | PlugShare has 14. I've swung by there before and it wasn't even 1/2 full.
Novato Fair Shopping Center | PlugShare has 8. I've used this one. I don't recall seeing more than 2 or 3 chargers in use when I was there.
Gilroy Premium Outlets (3) | PlugShare has 8 chargers. I've also used this at least once and don't recall it being close to full. I think one of the times I was there, I was the only car charging and then two Lucid Air test vehicles showed up. There are numerous other DC FCs not far away.

 

[cwerdna]

View attachment 826677View attachment 826678

Interesting that they hired Italdesign – Development Services for the Transportation Industry.

I do like the side holsters like on EA's Signet "v2" like at Safeway | PlugShare. The cables don't jut out into the parking spaces when installed sideways.

The BTC Power ones at Princeton Plaza Mall | PlugShare stick out and you may have to get out and push the cables back before pulling in, to avoid contacting them.

 

[Mockingbird]

There have been documented cases (some well-documented) where there wasn't enough on holidays, special occasions on busy travel corridors like these:

Photos showed Tesla Supercharger stations faced long lines during holiday travel, revealing a big hurdle for EV makers

Tesla Supercharger stations throughout the West Coast were overwhelmed over the holiday, and some drivers complained on Twitter and YouTube.

www.businessinsider.com

15 cars in line, 2 hour wait

Corning Supercharger Yeah and I'm last...

teslamotorsclub.com

The holidays are hard on Tesla's Superchargers, long lines reported, Barstow broken again [Updated]

There’ve been a lot of talks lately about the upcoming Supercharger V3 having a significantly higher charge rate, and while it...

electrek.co

From what I've seen at the two closest EA DC FC sites, near home, they were way over capacity. There's a 3rd one closer to home and I almost never see anyone there.

Walmart Supercenter | PlugShare has 12 stations.
Westfield Valley Fair | PlugShare has 14. I've swung by there before and it wasn't even 1/2 full.
Novato Fair Shopping Center | PlugShare has 8. I've used this one. I don't recall seeing more than 2 or 3 chargers in use when I was there.
Gilroy Premium Outlets (3) | PlugShare has 8 chargers. I've also used this at least once and don't recall it being close to full. I think one of the times I was there, I was the only car charging and then two Lucid Air test vehicles showed up. There are numerous other DC FCs not far away.

Over a year ago, there was a line at the Baker Supercharger while the Baker Electrify America right next door had only one vehicle charging.

So, the real problem isn't a lack of fast chargers.

Rather, it's the inability of Tesla drivers to use the existing fast chargers.

This is a problem that Tesla itself created.

 

[MP3Mike]

Over a year ago, there was a line at the Baker Supercharger while the Baker Electrify America right next door had only one vehicle charging.

So, the real problem isn't a lack of fast chargers.

How long was the line? How many EA chargers were there?

i.e. even if all of those Teslas could use the EA chargers there would likely still have been a line. i.e. there is a lack of fast chargers to meet peak demand. (Just like there is a lack of gas station pumps to meet peak demand. At least at the more inexpensive ones, people will wait in line at Costco to get cheap gas vs. going somewhere else that is available but more expensive.)

 

[Big Earl]

Over a year ago, there was a line at the Baker Supercharger while the Baker Electrify America right next door had only one vehicle charging.

So, the real problem isn't a lack of fast chargers.

Rather, it's the inability of Tesla drivers to use the existing fast chargers.

This is a problem that Tesla itself created.

Nah. Teslas can use other fast chargers, but Electrify America chose to install just one compatible plug per site, limiting the network's usefulness to Teslas, Nissan LEAFs and others. Other networks, like EVgo, go so far as to include a Tesla>CHAdeMO adapter at many sites, making their network more accessible to all EVs.

But that was then (a year ago) and this is now. CHAdeMO is basically dead and Teslas can now use CCS plugs, as you so helpfully point out in other threads by linking to the Korean CCS adapter. Tesla also has permits for two more sites in Baker, adding a total of 88 new stalls, bringing Baker up to 128 Tesla charging stalls. Soon, all CCS EVs will be able to use them. Exciting times!

 

[Mockingbird]

Nah. Teslas can use other fast chargers, but Electrify America chose to install just one compatible plug per site, limiting the network's usefulness to Teslas, Nissan LEAFs and others. Other networks, like EVgo, go so far as to include a Tesla>CHAdeMO adapter at many sites, making their network more accessible to all EVs.

Electrify America can't use Tesla Proprietary Connector because it is, well, proprietary.

CHAdeMO adapter is limited to 50 kW, meaning that it has very limited usefulness.

But that was then (a year ago) and this is now. CHAdeMO is basically dead and Teslas can now use CCS plugs, as you so helpfully point out in other threads by linking to the Korean CCS adapter. Tesla also has permits for two more sites in Baker, adding a total of 88 new stalls, bringing Baker up to 128 Tesla charging stalls. Soon, all CCS EVs will be able to use them. Exciting times!

CCS adapter is only available in South Korea.

Not many Tesla drivers outside of this forum are even aware that it exists or are going to jump through hoops to get it.

 

[Mockingbird]

How long was the line? How many EA chargers were there?

i.e. even if all of those Teslas could use the EA chargers there would likely still have been a line. i.e. there is a lack of fast chargers to meet peak demand. (Just like there is a lack of gas station pumps to meet peak demand. At least at the more inexpensive ones, people will wait in line at Costco to get cheap gas vs. going somewhere else that is available but more expensive.)

Baker Electrify America has 12 chargers.

Down the road, there are also Baker EVgo with 6 chargers and Baker ChargePoint with 4 chargers.

 

[Earl]

Over a year ago, there was a line at the Baker Supercharger while the Baker Electrify America right next door had only one vehicle charging.

So, the real problem isn't a lack of fast chargers.

Rather, it's the inability of Tesla drivers to use the existing fast chargers.

This is a problem that Tesla itself created.

That's one way to look it it.
It's stupid and not based on reality but it does fit your biased agenda so I clearly understand.

All,
If it weren't for Tesla Superchargers, CCS would have been limited to 50 kW charging, meaning it would take 1.5 hours to fill a LR Model 3 and 2 hours to fill a Model S 100. Porsche's fear of the Tesla Model S drove them to push for CCS to support higher power charging.

 

[Earl]

Haha, it was a one time mistake.

I won't be making that mistake anymore.

I wonder why they don't just remove them

Some of us aren't happy with having to agree to the invasive T's and C's and self-serving privacy statements required to set up an account an use the apps for all of the disparate 3rd party charging networks.
I've joined most of them but, probably being the one person who actually looks at them, am not happy with having to do so. Chevron, Mobile, etc don't make me agree to what their lawyers want, just to be able to buy gas, why should EV networks get to demand it?

 

[Big Earl]

Baker Electrify America has 12 chargers.

Four of which, according to pictures from yesterday, aren't yet operational. But it's nice to see that they're 500 amp capable, which is an improvement. Hopefully they're more reliable than the existing units, which get consistently poor reviews on PlugShare - several recent reports of half (!) of the chargers not working.

 

[Mockingbird]

Four of which, according to pictures from yesterday, aren't yet operational. But it's nice to see that they're 500 amp capable, which is an improvement. Hopefully they're more reliable than the existing units, which get consistently poor reviews on PlugShare - several recent reports of half (!) of the chargers not working.

Those chargers are being upgraded to 350 kW.

 

[RTPEV]

the "problem" could be that I, like many..do not want to end up sharing the Tesla Supercharger grid with no Tesla owners..I am guilty of being a sort of NIMBY or whatever that may be. Just add that to my many other vices...

So are you okay with Tesla introducing new models (i.e. the Cybertruck) and selling in huge numbers (I suppose I could include made-in-TX Model Y's in that comment as well) that you'll now end up sharing "your" Supercharger with?

What's the difference between your neighbor that bought a Kia EV6 and a Tesla Model Y last week and now shows up at "your" Supercharger? Do you think that you bought into an exclusive club where you get to keep the "riff raff" away from your charging stations? I guess I missed that part of the sales brochure.

 

[RTPEV]

Tesla's location count is currently 1,433 compared to EA's 758 (according to their site - fastcharger.info has that number around 780). Construction site count for Tesla is 147 compared to EA's 76 coming soon (not sure what exactly that means).

Part of that discrepancy may be due to stations such as the EVolveNY stations in New York state that may not be counted on EA's site, but which are in fact managed by EA and are controlled through the EA app. I count those as being EA (because that's how they come in via the AFDC database), even though they may not be counted in EA's numbers (I actually don't know whether they are or not).

 

[RTPEV]

The number of chargers (or stalls/whatever) isn't as important as the number of locations.

For example, the Electrify America charging station in Ogallala, NE has 4 chargers, but the Supercharger in Ogallala, NE has 8 chargers.

Sure, Electrify America could double the number of chargers in Ogallala to 8 chargers to match the Supercharger in Ogallala, but if the current charging station with 4 chargers is rarely ever full, what would be the point of adding 4 more chargers?

It would be a wasted expense.

Well, it might look like a wasted expense, but if 1 or 2 chargers go down (not an uncommon occurrence), then it could become a serious pinch point, whereas 1-2 going down at an 8-stall might not be as big a deal. Even just one station down cuts the capacity down by 25%. Plus, while your cherry picked rural midwest example might in fact be a valid example now, that's not planning for future use. I do think that 8 is a more appropriate minimum number than 4. Would I take 4 over 0? Sure, but I think I would take one 8 slightly further apart over 2 4's closer together.

Plus it's probably more financially efficient to install one 8 stall than two 4's.

 

[MP3Mike]

Baker Electrify America has 12 chargers.

Down the road, there are also Baker EVgo with 6 chargers and Baker ChargePoint with 4 chargers.

Were those all installed and working a year ago when there was the line at the Superchargers?

 

[RTPEV]

You already made the mistake of using your credit card. Don't use the CC readers!

Search Electrify America Talks Charging Network Problems, Has Solutions for about those credit card readers. Search Interview: Electrify America expects you to raise hell if chargers don’t work for financial session.

Well okay, but the app is sometimes faulty as well.

I have firsthand experience with this as to get the free EA charging that came with our ID4 we need to initiate the app to get the free charge. At most sites we stop at, the app showed one or two stalls as being UNAVAILABLE (and thus unable to use via the app). Many times this was not a problem as the site was nearly empty, so we just used a different stall. But had we had a 350kW capable vehicle (and it was a 350kW stall that was unavailable), or if the site was full (as it was at least twice), we would have had an issue. And I know that in at least two of those cases, the station was actually working just fine, despite the fact that the app said UNAVAILABLE.

As part of my verification of data for fastcharger.info, I regularly go into the EA app to validate new sites, and almost always there are one or two stalls listed as UNAVAILABLE. Whether they are truly down or in use or not I have no idea (it doesn't seem likely because these are all brand new sites added to the app less than a few hours before I check), but the app is definitely not the perfect tool here.

 

[avs007]

So are you okay with Tesla introducing new models (i.e. the Cybertruck) and selling in huge numbers (I suppose I could include made-in-TX Model Y's in that comment as well) that you'll now end up sharing "your" Supercharger with?

What's the difference between your neighbor that bought a Kia EV6 and a Tesla Model Y last week and now shows up at "your" Supercharger? Do you think that you bought into an exclusive club where you get to keep the "riff raff" away from your charging stations? I guess I missed that part of the sales brochure.

He's probably worried about folks that pull up with a car with the charge port on the wrong side, and then blocks a stall... But honestly, even Tesla folks can do that. In this picture, the idiots in the blue and grey teslas on the right couldn't be bothered to park correctly, so as a result, they are blocking the charger between the red and blue tesla... This charger was full/busy, but was running one short becuase of these two.

Granted, the painted lines suck at this SC, but honestly, it's not that hard to back in correctly... Just use the curb-stop as a guide, so know which set of lines is the correct lines... Or, at least park in the same orientation as the other 8 cars next to you.

 

[RayK]

He's probably worried about folks that pull up with a car with the charge port on the wrong side, and then blocks a stall... But honestly, even Tesla folks can do that. In this picture, the idiots in the blue and grey teslas on the right couldn't be bothered to park correctly, so as a result, they are blocking the charger between the red and blue tesla... This charger was full/busy, but was running one short becuase of these two.

Granted, the painted lines suck at this SC, but honestly, it's not that hard to back in correctly... Just use the curb-stop as a guide, so know which set of lines is the correct lines... Or, at least park in the same orientation as the other 8 cars next to you.

From the looks of it, the blue and MSM 3s also had to have entered into the lane against the directional one-way arrow painted on the ground, in order to back in like that. You can't find fix stupid. Where is this located?

edit: Corrected my stupid typo.

 

[Earl]

So are you okay with Tesla introducing new models (i.e. the Cybertruck) and selling in huge numbers (I suppose I could include made-in-TX Model Y's in that comment as well) that you'll now end up sharing "your" Supercharger with?

What's the difference between your neighbor that bought a Kia EV6 and a Tesla Model Y last week and now shows up at "your" Supercharger? Do you think that you bought into an exclusive club where you get to keep the "riff raff" away from your charging stations? I guess I missed that part of the sales brochure.

I, for one, hope that Tesla charges non-Teslas more than Teslas since the purchase of their car doesn't help fill the warchest for deploying Superchargers.
I'm sure that a lot of those other drivers will probably whine insufferably about it though.

 

[avs007]

From the looks of it, the blue and MSM 3s also had to have entered into the lane against the directional one-way arrow painted on the ground, in order to back in like that. You can't find stupid. Where is this located?

This is the Northgate SC, just off the 5 freeway in Seattle. I see people do this almost every time I go... When you enter the top deck of this parking structure, the entrance goes up to the "exit" of this row of SC.. Normally you turn left, and drive up the previous aisle all the way to the end, then go down the row of SC... But some people tend to just enter thru the exit, and drive the wrong way up the aisle.