Electrify America general discussion

[RayK]

This is the Northgate SC, just off the 5 freeway in Seattle. I see people do this almost every time I go... When you enter the top deck of this parking structure, the entrance goes up to the "exit" of this row of SC.. Normally you turn left, and drive up the previous aisle all the way to the end, then go down the row of SC... But some people tend to just enter thru the exit, and drive the wrong way up the aisle.

Google Street View does not appear to show the Supercharger stalls currently but I understand what you are saying. Maybe a simple WRONG WAY sign mounted at the entrance to the aisle atop the concrete island:

But then again, you can't make people obey signs all of the time.

 

[avs007]

Google Street View does not appear to show the Supercharger stalls currently but I understand what you are saying. Maybe a simple WRONG WAY sign mounted at the entrance to the aisle atop the concrete island:

View attachment 827159

But then again, you can't make people obey signs all of the time.

They should at least repaint the parking stalls... There are two sets of lines on these stalls, becuase it looks like once upon a time, these stalls used to be angled the way the blue and MSM model 3's parked, but when the SC were installed, they restriped the stalls to be oriented the other way. It doens't help that the darker of the two sets of lines, are the ones that are oriented the "wrong" way.

One time when I was charging here, a lady pulled up next to me, and I watched her pull in and back out at least 3 times trying to park, but she kept orienting with the wrong set of lines... She then sped off and left. But I saw her go down the last aisle, drive around the long way, and then come back... And she tried 2 more times... But then failed 2 more times, then left for good... I would've thought that had she just oriented her car to match the orientation of mine, she would've back in fine... Or if she just looked at the curb stop in the backup camera....

 

[avs007]

But yes, this SC location is also "wierd" in that the 2 end stalls are different than the others, in that they are not angles... You also can't see in your image above, but there are two more chargers on the right. You can see in your image, that the right side, are all back in stalls, so if you back into the two chargers that are out of view of this image, you car will be pointed to the left. That's why I'm parked the way that I am, in the picture I posted.

 

[avs007]

Here are the lines I'm talking about...

 

[Big Earl]

Getting pretty off topic for the Electrify America thread.

 

[Mockingbird]

Were those all installed and working a year ago when there was the line at the Superchargers?

You know full well that no one can possibly know that answer unless he/she tries every charger.

 

[avs007]

Getting pretty off topic for the Electrify America thread.

Lol, to bring it back on topic, the Northgate location, has a set of EA chargers around the corner on the other side of the building. Last time I went thru here, the SC was full, so I went to the EA side of things, and had the whole place to myself.. The stall with the chademo plug is busted tho, and only seems to output 30kW, so use any of the other stalls... This stall is the one next to the L2 stall. I got 135kW from this one.

Also, the restrooms are a little closer, if you use EA, and walk across the street to Target, vs at the SC, where you have to go to one of the restaurants, then ask for a code for the restroom. (At least Chipotle was like that)

 

[FlatSix911]

The number of chargers (or stalls/whatever) isn't as important as the number of locations.
For example, the Electrify America charging station in Ogallala, NE has 4 chargers, but the Supercharger in Ogallala, NE has 8 chargers.

Sure, Electrify America could double the number of chargers in Ogallala to 8 chargers to match the Supercharger in Ogallala, but if the current charging station with 4 chargers is rarely ever full, what would be the point of adding 4 more chargers? It would be a wasted expense.

Complete nonsense, the number of EA stalls is the important metric as the number of non-Tesla EVs grows going forward.

 

[STS-134]

Electrify America started installing charging stations back in 2018 and it's only now, 4 years later, that the charging stations are starting to fill up.

If Electrify America started with ever more chargers per charging station, it would take even longer for the station to fill up.

It doesn't make much sense to have vastly underutilized charging stations, years after years.

If there is one single day where the site has a line because there aren't enough chargers, that's more destructive to the growth of EVs than anything else. Just like when you are building generating capacity for the grid, have to build for peak demand. You cannot build for average demand.

 

[avs007]

The number of stalls is the important metric as the number of non-Tesla EVs grows going forward.

I drove up and down the 5, from Canada thru California a few weeks ago. I was actually suprised at how few stalls the EA locations had... The only "large" EA location I drove thru, was Everett, WA, which had 10 stalls... All the other EA locations I went to, all had 4 stalls, with most of them having at least one if not two broken stalls.. On my drive back North, it was a sunday, instead of midweek like when I drove down... When I drove up on a Sunday, every single EA station I hit along the 5, was full or became full when I plugged in.. When I stopped in Springfield, there were only 2 functioning EA chargers, and was full when I arrived, so I went to the 20 stall SC down the street. There were only 3 cars there when I arrived.

 

[MP3Mike]

You know full well that no one can possibly know that answer unless he/she tries every charger.

You didn't answer the part if all of those stalls had been installed at the time of the line. Or have they been added since?

 

[cwerdna]

Back to EA having overcapacity, I didn't follow this person's road trip posts but at ARob's Spring 2022 Cross Country Bolt Trip Thread, he did an over 7000 mile road trip with 61 EA sessions, which was almost all his DC FC sessions. He said:
"I never waited for access to a plug, most sites I was either the only EV, or one other. Only a few times were all stations in use, yet no lines for those waiting to charge."

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Some of us aren't happy with having to agree to the invasive T's and C's and self-serving privacy statements required to set up an account an use the apps for all of the disparate 3rd party charging networks.
I've joined most of them but, probably being the one person who actually looks at them, am not happy with having to do so. Chevron, Mobile, etc don't make me agree to what their lawyers want, just to be able to buy gas, why should EV networks get to demand it?

But, we kind of already do anytime we go to a Grocery store.

You don't get the sales price unless you present your Safeway card.

The future is apps, and the future is now.

 

[Mockingbird]

If there is one single day where the site has a line because there aren't enough chargers, that's more destructive to the growth of EVs than anything else. Just like when you are building generating capacity for the grid, have to build for peak demand. You cannot build for average demand.

This is a terrible argument.

There are sometimes lines at gas stations and people still buy ICEVs.

If there is a line once a year, it doesn't make sense to add additional capacity.

If there is a line once a week, it's a good time to consider expanding capacity.

 

[Mockingbird]

You didn't answer the part if all of those stalls had been installed at the time of the line. Or have they been added since?

There were already there.

The current work is to upgrade 150 kW chargers to 350 kW chargers.

 

[STS-134]

This is a terrible argument.

There are sometimes lines at gas stations and people still buy ICEVs.

If there is a line once a year, it doesn't make sense to add additional capacity.

If there is a line once a week, it's a good time to consider expanding capacity.

There is only one scenario where I've ever waited in line at a gas station for more than 5-10 minutes and that is before or after a total solar eclipse. A 5-10 minute line doesn't kill you but a 30 minute long line of cars down the street is enough to make people not want to buy an EV.

 

[Mockingbird]

There is only one scenario where I've ever waited in line at a gas station for more than 5-10 minutes and that is before or after a total solar eclipse. A 5-10 minute line doesn't kill you but a 30 minute long line of cars down the street is enough to make people not want to buy an EV.

Back to what you were saying earlier.

If there is a line once a year, why does it make economic sense for a charging network to expand capacity?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

United States ≠ North America

Based on Supercharge.info data.

Open

Country	72	120	150	250	Total
USA	1,921	750	4,688	7,253	14,612
Canada	148	134	500	646	1,428
Mexico	24	34	40	40	138

Under construction

Country	72	120	150	250	Total
USA	12	0	0	1,298	1,310
Canada	0	0	8	142	150
Mexico	0	0	0	12	12

Locations identified, but not under construction. Some of these don't end up being built. Sometimes sites are found under construction, and occasionally just appear in the nav.

Country	72	120	150	250	Total
USA	0	0	7	2,199	2,206
Canada	0	0	0	100	100
Mexico	0	0	0	0	0

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

As part of my verification of data for fastcharger.info, I regularly go into the EA app to validate new sites, and almost always there are one or two stalls listed as UNAVAILABLE. Whether they are truly down or in use or not I have no idea (it doesn't seem likely because these are all brand new sites added to the app less than a few hours before I check), but the app is definitely not the perfect tool here.

In my experience (which is really small so far) the app is really glitchy, and the chargers themselves are glitchy.

One time it said a stall was UNAVAILABLE, but when I looked at the stall it was on the IDLE screen despite not car being there. I played around with putting the cable back on, but not change.

In my 7 years of supercharging I've occasionally experience bad stalls. One time it said 50% weren't working, but the site was fine. The biggest issue I've had with superchargers is it not always giving me the charge it should or suddenly stopping. Where I eventually give up and I try another stall. Or resorting to rebooting my vehicle in hopes that it will solve it.

In terms of problems per stall nothing comes close to my experiences with Diesel gas stations with my Sprinter Van. I don't know what it is, but I seem cursed with bad luck.

Sometimes its the wrong flavor diesel like biofuel diesel that my van says not to use
Sometimes its not the right blend
I can't go to Mexico because its not clear what stations have the ultra low sulfer.
Sometimes a station just feels sketchy and not to be trusted

In addition to these issues there seems to be a lot of technical issues like the card reader not work, and sometimes the gas flow is tiny. Sometimes I think they purposely mess with me with the low flow rates to make me lose my gas points by forcing me to try again.

So even Electrify America is less annoying. Of course with my Sprinter Van I usually only have to drive to another gas station with diesel, and try again.

I do plan on keeping track of issues with EA chargers, but I don't know how much charging I'll actually do at EA chargers. Rivian is coming out with their own Adventure network. They already have three operational sites in the US for L3 CCS charging for Rivians (they also have L2 charging at those sites for any EV). As they have more I'll use those first, and the EA second because free is free.

 

[Earl]

But, we kind of already do anytime we go to a Grocery store.

You don't get the sales price unless you present your Safeway card.

The future is apps, and the future is now.

I've got dummy cards for which I never registered and agreed to anything.
I also get the choice of paying for cash, totally anonymously if I choose to. I just pay a little more to avoid them tracking my behavior.