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Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
That list of things that need to be fixed?
Won’t get fixed by April. And this recall? Just the tip of the iceberg.
*bookmark*
If the solution for a recall isn't provided in a reasonable amount of time and satisfactorily to resolve the recall, I think that would become grounds for refunding the purchase price -- in this case I think it would be the difference between FSD and EAP at the time. Having a formal recall also opens up stuff on the legal side.
Pretty sure that's what the NHTSA is actually building the case for here, keeping in mind the NHTSA is largely reactionary. What's happening right now is a result of people complaining, submitting reports, and then their investigations.
Pretty sure that's what the NHTSA is actually building the case for here, keeping in mind the NHTSA is largely reactionary. What's happening right now is a result of people complaining, submitting reports, and then their investigations.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
What, specifically, is a reasonable amount of time?
Per the NHTSA notice Tesla isn't even being required to notify owners there IS a recall until mid April.
Tesla issued a recall for the trunk harness in late 2021, and lots of cars still have not had the repair made available to them here in early 2023.
I expect that Tesla already knew what they would do to fix the issues when they agreed to a voluntary recall. This didn't come as a surprise to Tesla. They had time to review the complaints and determine what the impacts were before they came to an agreement.
And what makes you believe Tesla won't resolve the needed FSD changes in a reasonable amount of time?
60 days is the standard window given to a manufacturer for notification after a recall has been initiated. Reasonable is up to the NHTSA, but that’s the term they use throughout their recall procedure.
I believe Tesla can’t sell or activate FSD Beta for anyone until the issue is corrected as well, thats cited in the recall acknowledgment.
This will still move slowly, but I definitely think it’s the intent and/or along with ensuring Beta on HW3 doesn’t get left on the wayside in its current form. This isn’t a recall for rolling stops, it’s for FSD as a whole and refunding the purchase price (minus depreciation) ends up being one of the remedies if a recall can’t be otherwise corrected.
Because the problems have already existed for an unreasonable amount of time and would’ve been fixed long ago if they could be. There are fundamental problems at the root of these things, like spending way too much time figuring out what to do at an intersection with a stop sign.
Why the Massive Tesla Recall Is So Bad
While the company pushed out "unsafe" tech, the government was asleep at the wheel.
Missy Cummings, a professor of engineering at George Mason University who recently left a position as a senior advisor at NHTSA, has her doubts.
“Even if you work 24/7 for the next 60 days, I’m not sure there are enough hours to adequately address all the issues NHTSA has raised,”
And before the usual Elon phanboyz dismiss Missy Cummings (and start defending whiny Elon) because she's a female/used to work at NHTSA, etc? Check her resume (and compare to your own, by the way).
Also interesting to note (for those that did not already know) why FSD is STILL not available in European countries:
"Notably, there is no similar FSD recall in the European Union, because Tesla hasn’t received the green light to offer it there. Until regulators grant that permission, Tesla can’t sell FSD to Europeans".
One would think, that if Elon's claims about FSD being so much safer than humans today? That the regulators in Europe would have gladly allowed it's use like they did with Mercedes system
"Notably, there is no similar FSD recall in the European Union, because Tesla hasn’t received the green light to offer it there. Until regulators grant that permission, Tesla can’t sell FSD to Europeans".
One would think, that if Elon's claims about FSD being so much safer than humans today? That the regulators in Europe would have gladly allowed it's use like they did with Mercedes system
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
It's literally the opposite.
Please read the recall documents: 2021 TESLA MODEL 3 4 DR RWD | NHTSA
"The FSD Beta system may allow the vehicle to act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits."
I‘m referencing the other recall document and was interpreting it differently:
I was reading that as spending far too long sitting at stop signs when the intersection is obviously clear — are rolling stops actually still an issue?
If this is again bringing up the pre-existing rolling stops issue, that might not bode well here.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
60 days for notification. Not fixing it.
As noted some OEMs have taken -years- to complete repairs for a recall. So the time window you suggest NHTSA "got started" here is...huge.
Tesla does not sell FSDb.
They sell FSD. And can keep doing so. They just won't be able to add the "request fsd beta" button to those buyers vehicles... and they may need to go back to their earlier (every quarter ever prior to this last one) method of only recognizing 60% of the FSD sale as revenue until it's resolved.
This is -100 percent wrong-
Again- the BETA is not the thing they sell to anyone. Nobody paid extra for the beta above the "normal" FSD. No refunds will result from any of this.
You're confused. Again.
FSD has been available for years in the EU.
FSD BETA is not- because Tesla has not released it anywhere except US and Canada.
Since the Mercedes system is so limited compared to FSD it's not a good analogy.
You're making a statement that may or may not be true. Many problems have been fixed so how do we know whether priorities are at play here? Or maybe the developers determined some of the problems you're referring too should wait for V11. Purely speculation of course but I'd prefer to speculate then to make statements as facts.
What is v11? Elon stated long ago that most of the v11 improvements came through the various v10s and v11 was just bringing highway functionality into the single stack. I haven’t seen indications that v11 would be more than that, and I would have considered HW3 Autosteer on City Streets as done after this recognition of the revenue + single stack.
Truth be told though I stopped following this side of things a while ago, didn't even know rolling stops were still an issue after it had already been recalled once.
We've already spent years talking about this and I have no doubt it could be years more.
That's an interesting point, I guess all people are REALLY paying $11.7k more for here in Canada is Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control -- Autosteer on City Streets can be perpetually Coming Soon
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I mean, it was "coming soon" for most people for years already, so no doubt it can be coming soon a while longer
I think the fact you still had to explicitly request the beta, rather than it being the default FSD software, is the relevant data point here.
Had that changed before now THEN this recall would be a somewhat larger issue for Tesla, and actually would block sales of FSD-- but as of now it does not.
The Mercedes system is highway only, and not all highways, in Germany. It is essentially TACC, autosteer and lane keeping, and is hands-off.
It's available for around $5,300 on S and EQS class vehicles, which start at $104,000 and are usually approx 135k-150k at dealers.
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