Elon Musk

[Grendal]

I would think it takes faith(the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen) to believe you live in a simulation. He made it clear he felt we all live in a simulation but estimates a one in a billion chance he could be wrong. To a degree he is correct by saying will live in an intelligent design by the creator, not a random bang. He believes it's some unknown alien being that has created us and our world as we know it. It seems he's totally anti-big bang. I would like to personally thank you for pointing out "he is trying to convince people to adopt his point of view on a variety of topics, whether it is anthropogenic climate change, establishing a human colony on Mars, electric transportation, etc." This is all I have been trying to say. Our only difference seems to be how we define that. In my eyes it falls into the category of religion(a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance)View attachment 179214 .

Now I know that you are mixing this up. You are misinterpreting what Elon said. He did not say we are "one in billions" actually living in a simulation but the exact opposite.

The point he was trying to make is that since we can simulate reality, to an extent now, that at some point technology will allow us to simulate reality to the point that it is indistinguishable from reality. So it is just logical to not dismiss (one in billions) the possibility that it is already happening.

 

[Coolcarx]

Are you mixing this up? Elon is basically saying that our reality that we perceive is a real reality and that there is a "one in billions" chance that we are currently living in a simulation. He is not saying that reality as we currently perceive it has a one in billions chance of being reality. Elon, knowing what he knows, is simply not dismissing the possibility (one in billions) that existence is a simulation. He is essentially an agnostic about simulated reality.

In fact he is saying the opposite which is why it's making the news.

 

[Alketi]

In fact he is saying the opposite which is why it's making the news.

Physicists try to describe the world using objective principles. It's the reason we have an understanding of the fundamental forces of nature and have progressed technologically as a society. He's not asking that you visit him once a week and give him a donation. Please stop equating the two.

 

[Grendal]

In fact he is saying the opposite which is why it's making the news.

Sorry. I watched the entire interview twice and you have it wrong. It is the opposite of what you are thinking and I am sure that Elon will correct the "news" articles that are misinterpreting it.

 

[Johan]

No. The argument concludes that it's infinity more likely that we are in a simulation than not, but it's more of a theoretical philosophical argument. It doesn't mean anything with regard to how we should live or lives and try to do what's best etc.

I should add that if in the future it turns out no humans ever run ancestor simulations, for reasons we cannot yet quite understand, then the probability that we're not living in a simulation becomes the dominant probability.

 

[ohmman]

Well, aside from hacking in and making it all work in your favor.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Ironically or appropriately, they were playing the Matrix (pt 1) last night on TV.

 

[Grendal]

In fact he is saying the opposite which is why it's making the news.

I am done arguing this since the true answer will arrive within a week or so. Elon will either correct the misinterpretation and I will be correct or he will not mention it at all and then you will likely be correct. It is logical, which is exactly how Elon answered the audience member's question.

Here is the common sense way to interpret this. Is it possible that Elon didn't hear the question properly? The odds are pretty good since he had a hard time hearing other questions. If so, he could have answered the question he thought he heard. From what I saw, and it is possible that I am misinterpreting the audience member's question as well, that Elon said exactly what I pointed out. I'd be willing to make a substantial bet that Elon does not believe we are in a simulation. That is also a common sense interpretation. Does Elon have an extreme viewpoint (we are living in a simulation) or a science oriented common sense viewpoint? The answer is pretty clear from his vast history in the public eye.

 

[Johan]

This article makes a good job of explaining it all. Let there be no doubt; Elon believes the odds we are living in a simulated reality as opposed to "the base reality (the"real reality"), is a billion to one in favor of us living in a simulation. But so what? Who cares? Let's live or lives to the best of our ability. It's interesting to think about but since we cannot, per definition, ever get the answer to the question why spend energy worrying about it?

Elon Musk believes we are probably characters in some advanced civilization's video game

 

[Coolcarx]

I am done arguing this since the true answer will arrive within a week or so. Elon will either correct the misinterpretation and I will be correct or he will not mention it at all and then you will likely be correct. It is logical, which is exactly how Elon answered the audience member's question.

Here is the common sense way to interpret this. Is it possible that Elon didn't hear the question properly? The odds are pretty good since he had a hard time hearing other questions. If so, he could have answered the question he thought he heard. From what I saw, and it is possible that I am misinterpreting the audience member's question as well, that Elon said exactly what I pointed out. I'd be willing to make a substantial bet that Elon does not believe we are in a simulation. That is also a common sense interpretation. Does Elon have an extreme viewpoint (we are living in a simulation) or a science oriented common sense viewpoint? The answer is pretty clear from his vast history in the public eye.

He would say your odds are 1,000,000,000 to 1 of being correct.

 

[Grimbasement]

I wonder how much this world view informs the way he lives and what he is able to accomplish? If our reality is a simulation then those that realize that or believe it is likely have a notable advantage. People have been telling Elon for years that it "can't be done" yet again and again his companies and the people he surrounds himself with proves them wrong. Ultimately consciousness is an unknown outside the self .

 

[Coolcarx]

This article makes a good job of explaining it all. Let there be no doubt; Elon believes the odds we are living in a simulated reality as opposed to "the base reality (the"real reality"), is a billion to one in favor of us living in a simulation. But so what? Who cares? Let's live or lives to the best of our ability. It's interesting to think about but since we cannot, per definition, ever get the answer to the question why spend energy worrying about it?

Elon Musk believes we are probably characters in some advanced civilization's video game

Thanks. The issue is words matter. Tell your kids this(reality is a simulation) and see what follows. "So dad, why do we care about life?" If you have ever played sports you know words matter. Have you ever heard a coach say "Ok team, we suck and they are going to kill us". Most would prefer to sit on the bench and avoid the predetermined outcome.

 

[ohmman]

Tell your kids this(reality is a simulation) and see what follows. "So dad, why do we care about life?"

I disagree. We care about life because it's our reality. Look at the universe size and timescale and tell me why we matter. Yet, we do care because right now is our present, and what we see and feel are our reality. My pain is my pain, no matter how absolutely meaningless it is in the scope of the universe let alone this earth or country or town or.. dare I say household? I personally think you're drawing an odd conclusion.

 

[ecarfan]

Elon is basically saying that our reality that we perceive is a real reality and that there is a "one in billions" chance that we are currently living in a simulation. He is not saying that reality as we currently perceive it has a one in billions chance of being reality.

Before formulating my reply to @Coolcarx I reviewed the video of Elon speaking at the recent Code conference. I think you have his quote wrong. Listen to the video at the 1:15 point. I listened to it a few times. I think @Coolcarx has it right.

While I agree with Elon's motivations and goals for Tesla, SpaceX, and SolarCity, I am not in agreement with him regarding the probability of our perceived world being a simulation, nor am I in agreement with his lack of concern over the number of humans on this planet (he has in the past said that a growing human population is not a problem that needs to be addressed, I am of course roughly paraphrasing and cannot give a specific link or reference only recall hearing it).

 

[Coolcarx]

I disagree. We care about life because it's our reality. Look at the universe size and timescale and tell me why we matter. Yet, we do care because right now is our present, and what we see and feel are our reality. My pain is my pain, no matter how absolutely meaningless it is in the scope of the universe let alone this earth or country or town or.. dare I say household? I personally think you're drawing an odd conclusion.

Elon seems to differ with you by saying your reality is actually not reality. You are living in a simulation/game. He said this is a best case scenario because that means we will not self destruct. This means we do not have free will in this simulation. Ask 10 kids at the park what they would do if they new life was a game someone created. They would likely assure you how stupid and crazy that sounds. His words have a "do not compute" error. "Look at the universe size and timescale and tell me why we matter." We matter because we are created in our creators image and life is eternal.

 

[Johan]

Elon seems to differ with you by saying your reality is actually not reality. You are living in a simulation/game. He said this is a best case scenario because that means we will not self destruct. This means we do not have free will in this simulation. Ask 10 kids at the park what they would do if they new life was a game someone created. They would likely assure you how stupid and crazy that sounds. His words have a "do not compute" error.

This isn't high school level philosophy class. You're obviously out in deep water. Arguing nihilism is very 19th century.

 

[Grendal]

Before formulating my reply to @Coolcarx I reviewed the video of Elon speaking at the recent Code conference. I think you have his quote wrong. Listen to the video at the 1:15 point. I listened to it a few times. I think @Coolcarx has it right.

While I agree with Elon's motivations and goals for Tesla, SpaceX, and SolarCity, I am not in agreement with him regarding the probability of our perceived world being a simulation, nor am I in agreement with his lack of concern over the number of humans on this planet (he has in the past said that a growing human population is not a problem that needs to be addressed, I am of course roughly paraphrasing and cannot give a specific link or reference only recall hearing it).

I just watched it twice again. I still think that I am correct. The gentleman asking the question directly asks him if he thinks we are in a simulation and Elons response is "no."

Questioner: "so the conclusion to this is that someone beat us to it and this is a game?"
Elon: "No-no..." And then he goes on.

Intellectually he is playing with the puzzle of the fact that mathematically it is inevitable that humanity (if we survive) will create simulations that will be indistinguishable from reality.

I have a similar intellectual puzzle that I throw out to people too. It goes like this:

Considering conservation of energy and conservation of matter, in an infinite Universe with infinite time, all matter and all energy will at some point become every possible combination. So, in an infinite Universe, I will become every possible combination. So, at some point in existence I will become you. This is a very Hindu viewpoint with a scientific justification.

We can start singing "The Circle of Life" now....

He would say your odds are 1,000,000,000 to 1 of being correct.

See my answer above.

I think this video sums it up very nicely....

 

[Alketi]

I just watched it twice again. I still think that I am correct. The gentleman asking the question directly asks him if he thinks we are in a simulation and Elons response is "no."

Elon couldn't have any more clearly have stated that he thinks it's a "1 in billions chance that we are in base reality". That's a direct quote.

In fact, he said it twice.

Base reality means no simulation.

He thinks the overwhelming odds are that we are in a simulation, which is why he asked Josh Topolsky (the questioner) "tell me how that reasoning is flawed". But, personally I find his odds-making somewhat presumptuous because having the ability to create a simulation doesn't necessarily mean we are living in a simulation.

 

[ohmman]

So, at some point in existence I will become you.

You should be looking forward to it. It's one hell of a ride.

 

[Grendal]

Elon couldn't have any more clearly have stated that he thinks it's a "1 in billions chance that we are in base reality". That's a direct quote.

In fact, he said it twice.

Base reality means no simulation.

He thinks the overwhelming odds are that we are in a simulation, which is why he asked Josh Topolsky (the questioner) "tell me how that reasoning is flawed". But, personally I find his odds-making somewhat presumptuous because having the ability to create a simulation doesn't necessarily mean we are living in a simulation.

That is the exact point I am trying to make. If they had stayed on the topic then I am certain that Elon would have said the same thing. I personally think it is clear that is what his response meant.

If you are an atheist it doesn't mean that existence is meaningless.
If you are a zen buddhist and believe that the self is an illusion mean that you are free to do whatever you want.
If you follow my little mental scientific puzzle to its conclusion mean that I am free to act in whatever way I feel like.

Action speak louder than words. What are Elon's actions? Is he acting like he is in a simulation? Does he regularly tell people that existence is is a simulation? Since that doesn't happen then the conclusion is absolutely clear that Elon is rooted in this reality and acting as if he is rooted in this reality.

If a tree falls in the woods and you can't hear it, do you immediately go out and quit your job? Of course not. Is there something useful in the exercise of the realization the concept? Absolutely. That is all Elon is doing. Playing mental games. My friends and I would call them "mindf*cks." They became so tedious that Elon and his people had to ban them from the hottub.