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But Prius' screen is not plastered on the side of the dashboard, it actually sits on top of the dashboard, much closer to your field of view than Model 3 screen, which is actually on the front-facing side of the dash on the prototype and what can be seen from the Model 3 release candidate video...
May not be quite comparable scenarios. Model 3 is more akin to your Prius showing the speed on its radio's/navigator's display.
I'm not saying it can't work. I'm sure Tesla has tested it plenty and it will be sufficient for many. But I have a hard time seeing this as a good thing... More like a cost compromise that will probably sort of be okay...
I'm guessing no speed cameras where you drive.
Nope. LIDAR/RADAR is what is used here. But like I said, I've never been surprised that I received a ticket.
Phthalate
Member
Going to bring up a quote from one of the greatest philosophers of all time, Unknown.
"Don't knock it till you try it."
We all gave Elon a chance when he said he was making an electric roadster. Again when he said he would make his own sedan from the ground up. Again when he said he would make rockets. Again..... you get the idea.
Don't cancel your reservation. Don't scream at the heavens for this UI change. Let's see how it works in practise and have a little faith in Elon again, he's got a knack for releasing great products.
"Don't knock it till you try it."
We all gave Elon a chance when he said he was making an electric roadster. Again when he said he would make his own sedan from the ground up. Again when he said he would make rockets. Again..... you get the idea.
Don't cancel your reservation. Don't scream at the heavens for this UI change. Let's see how it works in practise and have a little faith in Elon again, he's got a knack for releasing great products.
I actually agree, cancelling your reservation (unless you really need that 1000) at this time makes no sense. See what the final product is, try it out if possible, then decide.
That said, I do not agree we can not make preliminary judgements. Of course we can use our past experience to guide us and make some estimations on what will be, why, and how good or bad it may become. This is a cost-cutting excercise, that much we can tell. So it is a form of compromise, the type of which some of us has experience already from some other cars. Elon has already made it quite clear (as has past Tesla precedent), there is no magic bullet.
There is no magic bullet. Aka the Model X 6/7 seater seats looked like they won't fold and guess what, they did not fold, and all speculation regarding them not folding and inconveniences of that were perfectly predictable beforehand. In this case there will be no HUD or other saviour, so the placement of the speedometer etc. is roughly known, and rough estimations about this compromise can be made. Elon says "you won't care", but precedence and common sense dictate that some will care.
And those estimations will likely be quite accurate, even if many who dislike it learn to live with it. Like those non-folding Model X seats.
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Foxhound199
Member
I honestly don't think you're hearing from a lot of people who will actually not buy the car because of this. You're hearing from people that wouldn't buy the car if it was any other car than the Tesla Model 3.
Yes, and I generally agree. Tesla is great at looking at old assumptions and changing the paradigm. But Tesla also does make some dumb decisions, justifying them as a design philosophy. And it seems to take forever for them to back out of them. Here I'm thinking:
- no cupholders, seat heat controls, usb outlet or fold-down armrest in the in the back seat of the S.
- the slightly bizarre central armrest in the S
- no storage pockets anywhere
- incredibly fragile frunk hood (susceptible to denting simply by closing it)
- no roof open/close button on the roof.
And I'm seriously questioning "self driving" as a rationale for removing a simple driver side mounted speedo, when 100 years of driving have told us that it's valuable. I still don't believe we'll see L4 or 5 on the road for another 15 years.
You may have a point! Don't get me wrong, as I do appreciate the smaller in-dash display in our Model S. However, I never had issues adapting to the displays in our LEAF or Prius.
For reference, here's a photo from inside a 3rd Gen Prius, one that happens to have built-in nav:
Building on that, Tesla has shown that the technology they do implement is usually bleeding edge and not quite ready for main stream adoption. There is no way I will ever put this car into autopilot mode, won't even get the option, if there isn't a screen telling me if the cameras are seeing what they're supposed to. Tesla hasn't proven that the technology is consistently reliable and I will not trust it to operate on it's own. Further, I highly doubt that the technology and regulations will be approved for FSD in the time period I will own the car. Building the car around autonomous features that may never see the light of day instead of the driver at this point is ridiculous. I'm firmly on the fence now which bums me out given my excitement for this car a year ago.
Could Tesla Vision be really good at reading signs and when you overlay that information with GPS the car knows exactly the speed limit? You don't need level 5 autonomy to be able to hit a button that enables speed control. As a backup you have the digital numbers on the screen that would change the background to yellow at 1-5 over, orange at 6-10 and red at 11+. This system would be better especially in areas that you don't know the limit.
Look at NASCAR, they don't even have a speedometer and mainly go off colored backgrounds that get their attention.
Look at NASCAR, they don't even have a speedometer and mainly go off colored backgrounds that get their attention.
Foxhound199
Member
I'm not trying to say how anyone should drive, do what works for you. But I think this reveals a possible reason for the sharp difference of opinion in how big of an impact this feature will have.
BluestarE3
Active Member
Since the 3/31/2016 reveal, has Tesla ever said or shown anything to indicate there would be any display beyond the single, center-mounted 15" one? Elon tweeted that the interior "feels like a spaceship" (whatever that means) and some people jump to some wild conclusions based on what they'd like/wish to see included. If the Model 3, as shown on 3/31/2016, was enough to quicken your pulse, why would recent tweets that this design is confirmed suddenly become a disappointment?
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What I conclude from here is that since the Screen is centered the Model 3 has a central speedometer, so that NO must be about the "for those of us who don't want autopilot". So Elon is telling us every Model 3 will have autopilot, there is no way you can run away from it
AP - is one $5000 upgrade I won't be making personally. I'd take the longer range / high performance. I welcome the AutoEmergencyBreaking stuff slamming on the breaks if a child / deer or other car swerves into my lane and stops. But the autonomous driving I can do without. Don't see it becoming legal in the UK for at least a decade anyway.
Elon tweeted 3's "S / X advantage over 3" advantages and listed performance, storage, AND included "2 screens instead of 1"... then based on that mentality he really is using screens as a crippleware in the 3. So much for making the best $35,000 car. I don't see Nissan, GM or BMW saying - if you want 2 screens, tough, we can't afford one - you need to buy the $80k car. That's total BS. They're not made of gold. A backlit LED exists on a $50 dvd player.
Bingo! Exactly my thinking... I cannot imagine my Audi A7 going on Active Cruise Control, without me knowing, if it sees the car in fron of me or not! With HUD it is super convenient, shows me nav instructutions and speed limits relative to my speed. Going on ACC and not knowing what the car sees, only for adrenalin lovers and gamblers
and thats assuming there is a standard instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. If M3 has none of this, then ACC or AP is completely useless for me, because I will never travel in peace/without fear...
rhumbliner
Member
True, perhaps, but I certainly don't consider this community to be main stream. We are the bleeding edge and we can't wait to try the next advance in technology.
not just speed. Central instrument cluster typically has:
- engine power (regen)
- battery range / percent
- trip miles / total miles
- AP mode (on / off)
- Cruise control
- indicator acknowledgement (the light that flashes with your indicator)
- all the various warning lights
- car needs service and other important stuff
Within that black bar that runs the full width of the dash - and in particular behind the wheel you could get a nice 2 inch by 8 inch backlit LED displaying all of the above. The design wouldn't have to change much. It could even be copied across to the RHD side with no fascia change. It's not like we need a 5 foot wide airvent - which apparently is what that is!
Oh - and located there you'd have no glare issues / not have to refocus your eyes very far from the road.
Having driven a pile of miles under AP 1.0, I think I can say that the tech is ready for mainstream. Just like with regular cruise control (and lots of other features on a 2 ton machine intended to propel you down the road at 80 mph), the driver has to understand it's limitations.
And I do think that fully autonomous WILL see the light of day. But I think it will require relatively minor revisions to the road infrastructure, and much more precise GPS mapping. That will take some time.
I think they could have fitted a lot in that thin black bar that runs the full width of the dash. Have a 2inch by 8 inch backlit LED in there. Could display all the important things (not just speed). AP mode. What the car sees. Warning lights. Trip distance etc
I don't know that we need all of these things. I can tell you that I virtually never look at the little car images to see what the AP sees. If there's a concern, you need to be looking out. And most of the warning lights and such are just fine on the big iPad.
I do think that you need a speedo, remaining range, signal light indicator and high beam indicator. Beyond that, the GPS graphic display in the S is nice to have. But I could certainly live without it.
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