SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
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I don't see how you can say it will be a far inferior car. Besides the lack of a instrument cluster behind the wheel it seems pretty similar to the S/X, with the same fairly spartan interior (which I'm fine with in my S) and a user interface centered around a large control screen. As long as it has the same driving feel as the S, I'm probably happy. If it is missing some features from the S/X, I suppose it depends whether they are features I want, but I can't imagine too many things that wouldn't be available.
Is there some comment from Musk I'm forgetting that makes you think it will be far inferior? Sure AWD and performance are delayed, but they will still come.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Can we remove all of the guessing for a second? Not that guessing and speculation isn't valuable. Indeed it is. However for a second, can we name facts concerning things related to the M3?
For example:
Elon said ( for what that's worth )....there will be NO HUD.
Elon said ( for what that's worth ).....there won't be dual motors in the first deliveries.
Elon said ( for what that's worth ).....in 6 to 9 months from some unknown date.....dual motors will be available.
These facts are getting mixed up with speculation and causing lots of confusion.
For example:
Elon said ( for what that's worth )....there will be NO HUD.
Elon said ( for what that's worth ).....there won't be dual motors in the first deliveries.
Elon said ( for what that's worth ).....in 6 to 9 months from some unknown date.....dual motors will be available.
These facts are getting mixed up with speculation and causing lots of confusion.
The difference is that the iPhone was always meant to be a singular mass-market product with successive iterations. Yes, it occupies the luxury/premium space, but a $1,000 luxury good inherently has a different market than a $100,000 luxury good.
Tesla can and does make better versions of the Model S, it just won't ever be mass-market. I would argue that the Model 3 is the real "iPhone 1" in the vehicle segment.
Garlan Garner
Banned
His tweet storm.
He says: and I quote.
The M3 will have less features
The M3 will have less power
The M3 will have less range
The M3 will have lesser technology
The M3 will not initially have dual motors
The M3 will not have 2 screens, but one
The M3 will not have the larger MS / MX battery options.
The M3 will never match the MS in acceleration
The M3 battery will be capped at 75kWh.
I'm going with facts here - without inserting speculation.
Elon quote: Am noticing that many people think Model 3 is the "next version" of a Tesla, like iPhone 2 vs 3. This is not true.
OK, it will be inferior to the top of the line S/X, sure. But that doesn't mean it can't compare favorably in general.
The Model 3 is more like the iPhone SE. Smaller and crippled to make it cheaper / more affordable to the masses.
Garlan Garner
Banned
No, No.....lets go with facts. He did not say "top of the line MS". No he didn't say that. Come on.
Why can't we just go with the real facts and quotes.
I'm not talking abount comparing the M3 to anything.....I'm asking folks to JUST look at the M3 for what it is. The question that I'm asking is: What has TESLA said that it is? We are clearly being informed as to what it ISNT.
What features will it have? Autopilot - yes...or at least some version of it.
What else? Links and facts.
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Wolverinegeoff
Member
The M3 will start at under half the price of our lowest-priced S. (once S60 goes away)
*fixed it
It was always going to be cheaper AND inferior to the MS - there should never have been any confusion about that when we're looking at a two-fold price difference. I do understand the general sentiment that it should "feel" like a Tesla - but compared to an ICE alternative, though. The interior as presented so far is a letdown.
I really wonder if Tesla boxed itself in with the 35K base price - it would've been far better to start at 40K if that meant better base features. When I reflect on it, that might have been the consequence of underestimating demand. It's not just a matter of re-organizing production schedules, but they might have planned on competing on price more than they actually needed to.
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Garlan Garner
Banned
Wolverinegeoff
Member
The 35k version definitely seems like it'll be pretty basic, but I think they'll have easily swappable upgraded options to make it more comfortable. It's not that hard to put different seats in on the factory line, or possibly even different headlights/fog lights, sound system, general interior materials. Seems like they are trying to make it as "Plug-and-play" as possible with all this talk about the factory really being the big technological advancement.
I'd add every bloody other car has 2 screens! Including a $10k made-in-China / India - bottom of the market car. It's not like a AWD vs 2WD option - it's pretty darn essential !!!
People want a drivers screen - you know with stuff you need to be seeing. Warning lights. Indicators. Speed. Engine revs (or equiv). People want that stuff !!!
Elon is thinking about his autonomous driver tech - and applying that to Model 3. That's not what people going into showrooms / demos will be thinking as they look across to the centre of the car - at the same stuff their kid in the middle backseat can see!!!
Stupid. Moronic. Doesn't even begin to explain it.
The problem is that the point of contention for most people won't be upgradeable at all, and it's such a integral part of the daily experience. I know there was some fuss raised about the hatchback (or lack thereof), but in the midsize sedan segment, I really don't think trunk space drives the experience or perception of the car. That centre-only console is the first and most impactful visual element of the Model 3 interior and it's not a great impression for me. There's the autonomy argument, I know, but it still could've been much better executed in my opinion. That's why there was so much speculation about the HUD. The desire for it was in reaction to the single display.
They're killing the S60 D60 because of the Osbourning.
The tweet about "just a smaller Model S - with only one screen". They now think we should have to pay $70k for a car with a speedo (and the other key stuff) in the right place.
Can see the advert now. "The Bolt / Leaf gen 2 for the people who love driving (cue car whizzing round a nice Swiss mountain road) and not be driven! Oh, and we can afford to let you have a driver screen too!".
And yet you did compare. You said it sounds like it will be far inferior to the Model S/X. You seem to be able to speculate negatively, but others can't speculate at all. If you just want to wait and see, then why even participate in this thread? If you want to spread doom and gloom and not have other people refute you, then forget it. If the Model 3 has an option of a 75kWh battery, then it makes no sense that it would have less range than the heavier 75kWh Model S. However, it will definitely have less range and power than the P100D. Since that fits what he said, I don't see the reason to speculate that he meant more.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I'm not speculating at all. I'm not comparing at all.
I'm listing what ELON said. That's not speculation. Elon said that it is a lesser car. Those are HIS WORDS. That's not MY opinion.
Elon either read this forum or listened to folks saying that their expectation was that the Model 3 was going to be a little MS. He said "Whoahhh everyone" Pump the brakes a bit folks. The Model 3 is not a little MS. Its a lesser car.
I would be highly disappointed making my car payments every month thinking that I had a little MS in my garage when I "really don't". I hear, read, and experience MS owners saying that they wake up every morning with a wonderful drive to go get in their cars and drive. I'm hoping that will be the same experience for Model 3 owners, however I would like to go into this purchase with my eyes wide open. I don't want to look into my garage 4 months from purchase asking myself ....... what did I really buy? Is this 5th payment worth it? Or did I get engulfed in fandom?
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They have that stuff, just not behind the steering wheel. The Prius is an incredibly well selling car (always one of the top cars in California) and it doesn't have that information behind the steering wheel either.
this is exactly why we need the little car logo with it showing what the car is seeing (and a speedo, indicator lights, warning lights in the right place) - because frankly people won't trust AP - and need a LOT of convincing, and that's US - the people who have read the Tesla forums! None of my pub mates want a self-driving car!
Having no display behind the wheel to show this - like the S does is going to bug the hell out of a LOT of people in real life. I hope the Tesla workers - the "production version" early-sales guineapigs give them sh&* about the lack of a driver dash display.
It's in a better position than the Model 3, further away (so easier to focus to the road) - AND angled to the driver - not like a taxi meter display - for the purpose of the people in the back!!! The Model 3 display is at pretty much 45 degrees to the eye. Oh - and hopefully you won't have the sun bouncing off the screen from the side window too! That's why the Prius and all other cars set the screen into a recess!!!
