Elon tweet re: lack of instrument cluster

[kaess]

I understand that, and you are choosing between two options.

But in the case of Model3, HUD is NOT NECESSARY at all! You can get all the info in the centre screen, and that's the whole point of the new dash design.

So why add the manufacturing cost (even if it is lower, it is definitely not insignificant) and time for assembling the dash?

I agree with you. I prefer the minimalist interior and simplicity of everything on one screen. My posts discussing "HUD with augmented reality" ideas are simply for the sake of discussion. I do not think a driver-focused instrument cluster is necessary. Things like the speedometer will of course be thoughtfully placed on the center screen within the driver's field of view, as is the case with the prototype.

 

[mikevbf]

Could it be more like this:

View attachment 170569

I understand that, and you are choosing between two options.

But in the case of Model3, HUD is NOT NECESSARY at all! You can get all the info in the centre screen, and that's the whole point of the new dash design.

So why add the manufacturing cost (even if it is lower, it is definitely not insignificant) and time for assembling the dash?

Because Elon can't help pushing the envelope. As an investor in TSLA stuff like this sometimes makes me nervous. But, at some point you have to sit back and trust that he is not only going to do something really cool, but also functional.

The picture of steering wheel I showed above is a Mercedes concept they envision bringing to the world in maybe 20 years. Elon is bring us this stuff in less than 2 years!

 

[tkizzy]

(I believe) Augmented Display HUD would make sense from a minimalist, cost point of view. Not especially expensive in 2016/2017, and all the dials, needles, readouts would be in software...so cheaper. They could literally reuse most of their code from the S gauge..difference would be the UI parts. (By the way, I like the S gauge UI design aesthetically so much better than the center console UI design)

small lcd screen on the steering wheel is entirely possible. Imagine the steering wheel's center is inset rather drastically, with a smaller lcd screen on it. Perhaps the steering column is mounted more horizontally than some cars so the viewing angle is closer to having a traditional cluster.


I hear the concerns about the need for an airbag to be in the steering wheel (I don't know whether that's the only viable place for an airbag or not), but my answer to that is - an lcd screen can be very very very thin and light. there is already plastic/rubber/other material that has to pop away for the airbag to deploy. Having an incredibly thin lcd screen there would not change that (I believe).

 

[Ryan P]

I can't imagine that it will stay like this either. The mass adoption of the Model 3 will not occur if the interior doesn't appeal to the masses. If it's too much of a departure from convention, it won't succeed.

But, I certainly will wait to see what develops.

Its going to be different because the car is designed around autopilot or autonomy.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

I understand that, and you are choosing between two options.

But in the case of Model3, HUD is NOT NECESSARY at all! You can get all the info in the centre screen, and that's the whole point of the new dash design.

So why add the manufacturing cost (even if it is lower, it is definitely not insignificant) and time for assembling the dash?

I was replying more towards to suggestions of cost of manufacture and mass production. Tesla Isn't trying to build VW Beatles here. They are building premium products that consumer demand.

 

[S'toon]

Its going to be different because the car is designed around autopilot or autonomy.

I don't want autonomy. As for the autopilot, that doesn't mean the driver doesn't need to know what's happening, especially when they're you know, driving.

 

[ikjadoon]

View attachment 170551
Elon referenced the steering wheel in the drawing he posted on Twitter yesterday. He said it was a "cool one" (replying to someone asking why the test ride cars had such ugly steering wheels. It is open at the top...perfect for HUD.

This is a great point; it also fits his "spaceship" design well. HUD is happening, IMO.

No, it does not.

The eye travel from the road to the left upper corner of the screen is shorter than your typical speedometer.

Uh, don't forget: it's easier to glance at a gauge than a digital readout that's constantly changing every half-second.

But why are people still dreaming about all these fancy HUD?
The objectives of Model 3 design is ease of manufacturing, low cost and mass market. The minimalist dash and single screen fit into these objectives exactly, Other features like mechanical door handle, simple trunk design, are also compatible.

OEM HUD for BMW is being sold at around US$2,700, and you need engineering and software development. So we can be talking about 5-10% of the cost of the base model. Just does not fit in Model 3 objectives.

Why are you quoting BMW prices for a $35,000 car? Elon already said the 3's upgrades will be cheaper than the S.

The 2012 Prius, MSRP of $24k, had a "Advanced" trim package which included a simple HUD, a moonroof with solar-powered ventilation (panels and all), a premium hard-drive navigation system, and satellite radio for $3500.

The HUD alone is not expensive, seemingly. Who told you that? What sources, besides BMW?

I understand that, and you are choosing between two options.

But in the case of Model3, HUD is NOT NECESSARY at all! You can get all the info in the centre screen, and that's the whole point of the new dash design.

So why add the manufacturing cost (even if it is lower, it is definitely not insignificant) and time for assembling the dash?

A HUD will hardly affect the dash: it just needs a port for the projector to shine through. Why do we want a HUD?

Hmm....ask any Tesla Model S owner if their main screen has ever lagged, skipped, or needed to be restarted. That alone completely disqualifies only having a screen. What if there's an electrical issue that requires the car to stop immediately, but the main display lags out?

What about night-time driving in the country? Just to see your speedometer, you'll need the entire screen on (unless they go OLED), killing your night vision (especially as it is pretty close to the driver) And, even if you're OK with that, it sounds annoying for passengers who want to sleep. (For night time driving alone, I sincerely hope they go for OLED screens. It's only $200 more than an LCD screen for the 14" panel in the Lenovo X1 Yoga. The pixels literally turn off!).

 

[yesup]

Why are you quoting BMW prices for a $35,000 car?

Because Model 3 targets BMW 3 series.

The HUD alone is not expensive, seemingly. Who told you that? What sources, besides BMW?

We don't know the exact price, but my point is that is cost is not trivial, and it takes time to install it during the assembly. And this goes against the Model 3 objectives as HUD is a luxury, not a necessity.

Hmm....ask any Tesla Model S owner if their main screen has ever lagged, skipped, or needed to be restarted. That alone completely disqualifies only having a screen. What if there's an electrical issue that requires the car to stop immediately, but the main display lags out?

For most cars with virtual instruments like Audi or Volvo, I don't think there is duplication of warning lights or indicator in both screens. It is usually indicated in only one of the screens. So if that screen does not function, you have the same situation. Just like the traditional instrument panels, which are digital anyways in many cars. If they malfunction, there is no backup indicator.

So, I don't see how it is different for Model 3 with one screen.

And HUD is not an ideal backup - as I frequently cannot see the HUD in my BMW because of my polarized sunglass.

What about night-time driving in the country? Just to see your speedometer, you'll need the entire screen on (unless they go OLED), killing your night vision (especially as it is pretty close to the driver)

It is very easy to for them to program a night time mode with a black screen with just the essential info.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

You keep mentioning objectives of the Model 3, but you will not find any official statements of your said "objectives". They were only concepts in forum discussions.

Try to stay on track with facts

 

[yesup]

You keep mentioning objectives of the Model 3, but you will not find any official statements of your said "objectives". They were only concepts in forum discussions.

What? I thought this was well known.
Check out About Tesla | Tesla Motors - Elon has repeatedly said that Model 3 would be a "mass-market affordable vehicle".
Elon has also stated that on hind sight, he has made the Model X too complicated to design and manufacture, and that Model 3 would be much simpler and much faster to manufacture.

Stop Assuming Tesla's Model 3 Will Be Late -- The Motley Fool

"the Model 3 is very specifically being designed and engineered 'for ease of manufacturing.' After all, ease of manufacturing is a requisite for a car that Tesla hopes to make half a million (or more) of every year."

So, low cost, mass-market affordable and ease of manufacturing are part of Model 3's design objectives.

And no, I am not making this up.

 

[Ryan P]

I don't want autonomy. As for the autopilot, that doesn't mean the driver doesn't need to know what's happening, especially when they're you know, driving.

32,000 people die in the US every year from automobile accidents and fully autonomy is going to save their lives, its a great thing.

I think Tesla will include a HUD with information that improves as the car improves. Similar to the center computer screen.

 

[Tdriver]

Instead of HUD you may see driving data displayed on the steering wheel.

 

[Yggdrasill]

We don't know the exact price, but my point is that is cost is not trivial, and it takes time to install it during the assembly. And this goes against the Model 3 objectives as HUD is a luxury, not a necessity.

If we are talking about a HUD, it will almost certainly be an option.

Tesla is in a position where so much is standard on the base Model 3, that it has to find ways to make people want to pay more for a higher-spec version. If a HUD helps sell a $4000 tech package, that will improve Teslas profit margins, and that will be good for Teslas long term viability.

 

[smak]

I doubt this would ever happen, but see that thin black strip that runs across the entire dashboard -- about 1" high?

I could see that as an information strip with things like speed, range, energy usage, audio and A/C settings, clock and temp, etc. Or even news headlines or stock quotes ticker-style. Or you can just turn it off completely, or set it to any trim color you want.

Yeah, I know, very expensive and different. But I think it would be really cool in addition to a HUD for the driver.

But no HUD and no instrument cluster? I think that's a big mistake. We shall see.

What if there's a HUD, but the display is not on the windshield, but in the area you mention above?

Projected like a HUD from the back of the steering wheel?

 

[J1mbo]

What if there's a HUD, but the display is not on the windshield, but in the area you mention above?

Projected like a HUD from the back of the steering wheel?

More likely to be projected from the back of the "tablet" into the middle of the windshield. The more functionality they can move to the middle of the car, the easier it is to make LHD & RHD variants. Also, it makes servicing easy - no need to rip the dash apart to fix a broken HUD.

Personally, can't see the need for a HUD at all...

 

[tga]

So why add the manufacturing cost (even if it is lower, it is definitely not insignificant) and time for assembling the dash?

I donno, maybe because center-mounted speedometers suck?

 

[tga]

Its going to be different because the car is designed around autopilot or autonomy.

Which will not be included in the base model. The $35k car has to be driveable.

 

[sillydriver]

My bet is either data (digital speed) on the steering wheel -- the inspiration being Formula 1 -- or if the airbag is in the way there will be a small screen mounted on the column just behind the wheel. It would rotate with the wheel and be visible between the spokes of what would probably be a three spoke wheel.

 

[paulp]

My bet is either data (digital speed) on the steering wheel -- the inspiration being Formula 1 -- or if the airbag is in the way there will be a small screen mounted on the column just behind the wheel. It would rotate with the wheel and be visible between the spokes of what would probably be a three spoke wheel.

That makes the most sense. Tesla are holding back a surprise, which means it wont be anything that has already been done. Its something they wont want to give any other manufacturer time to copy before 3 is ready to go.

 

[sljonesdigital]

Model3 dashboard prototype: