My typo, EMG (electromyography is something I deal with at work), should be "EMF" of course.
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EMF Radiation
- Thread starter Ben W
- Start date
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Whatever infinitesimal risk there might be (probably zero)... compare that to the very real risks of pumping gasoline or diesel.
A few things. First, Dr. Oz is your source? I'd think about that. He believes homeopathy is legitimate. He believes in reiki. He's a nut.
Second, you won't buy an electric car because a kid claims that a cell phone caused cancer in her breast? That's a leap. That's like saying I won't eat spinach because Jerry Springer had a guest who claimed that broccoli caused her to become a stripper.
And finally, here are a few known (Group 1) carcinogens. Not 2A items that are probable. Not 2B items, like glyphosate (RoundUp) which is "possible". These are known carcinogens.
- Ethanol alcohol (beer, wine, etc.)
- Particulate Matter from outdoor air pollution (local particulates correlated with non-EVs)
- Solar Radiation (being in the sun)
- Leather dust
- Mineral oil
- Salted fish
- Wood dust
- Second-hand smoke
Surely you don't find yourself exposed to any of those, right? For a list of probable carcinogens, check out the 2A list sometime. And remember that non-ionizing radiation hasn't made any of the lists.
I thought the next post in this thread was going to be on the study which showed an increased risk of tumors in rats exposed to high levels of cell-phone frequency RF. That one is worthy of discussion. Here's a decent piece discussing it.
You are basing a decision on a Dr. Oz show? The guy is a quack. And one sad breast cancer case proves...nothing.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Even if EMF is a serious problem...electric cars don't expose you to any more than gas cars do. Buy a reader and try it out. Or google it. Or read the earlier parts of this thread.
Interesting YouTube video about EMF radiation, or lack there-of for science. I had no idea this area existed.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
Has anyone run latest tests on EMF cabin exposure with the latest 100kwh packs and with dual motors vs RWD?
I have a p100d since October 2017 and pretty much a month in up to now, I’ve been increasingly ill every time I complete a drive in the car. Chill mode doesn’t diminish the feeling so it’s not acceleration or regen. Feelings of my nervous system out of whack, figity, adrenals weird and I subsequently feel tired/weak after the drive. When I drive our ice Suv, I feel perfectly normal.
So far the discussion thread was around rwd.
Only reason I ask is a good friend of mine being an electrical engineer and am auto mechanic mentioned to me to look into it as with the newer batteries and powerful motors, we’re now seeing much higher voltage and amperage levels than those in the roadster, S rwd 85kw.
Has anyone received any data from Tesla regarding their tested levels under acceleration, standstill or regen?
I have a p100d since October 2017 and pretty much a month in up to now, I’ve been increasingly ill every time I complete a drive in the car. Chill mode doesn’t diminish the feeling so it’s not acceleration or regen. Feelings of my nervous system out of whack, figity, adrenals weird and I subsequently feel tired/weak after the drive. When I drive our ice Suv, I feel perfectly normal.
So far the discussion thread was around rwd.
Only reason I ask is a good friend of mine being an electrical engineer and am auto mechanic mentioned to me to look into it as with the newer batteries and powerful motors, we’re now seeing much higher voltage and amperage levels than those in the roadster, S rwd 85kw.
Has anyone received any data from Tesla regarding their tested levels under acceleration, standstill or regen?
mknox
Well-Known Member
I do not believe the newer (larger) batteries are higher voltage.My understanding is that they are the same voltage, but just of a larger capacity. Further, the dual motor cars are supposed to get more range than the old RWD cars which suggests that slightly less, not more current flows than in the older cars.
Having said that, there is now a motor and inverter at the front of the car as well as the rear now, so it would be interesting to see what, if anything has changed from an EMF level.
The levels from the RWD were negligible. So the levels from the AWD will be at most twice negligible. Maybe the twitchiness you feel is adrenaline.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
Could be adrenaline. Have thought abt adrenal imbalance etc but the odd thing is not feeling anything with my ice car vs the EV. What I’m looking at is the continued and cumulative affect of emf on the nervous system and whether (as is wifi, power lines, cell phones, microwaves, MRI’s etc) there is something to be said for emf within an enclosed cabin environment in a vehicle with continuous flow of electrical energy in abundance.
This a particularly hard one to test other than live use of the EV vs non use and the affect on the body during and after. Again given ‘chill mode’ to rule out acceleration issues. And everyone’s body responds to electricity and current differently so again more variables.
I’m curious...Is there hard data to support ‘Negligable’? Don’t get me wrong...I love my T very much and I do get a smile on my face whenever I start driving it. What I’m feeling since I started driving the P100 is increasing amounts of odd medical symptoms after each drive which I cannot duplicate in my ice car.
I’d like to know if anyone has actual hard data on the newest and more powerful motors, dual motors, larger batteries as compared to previous Tesla’s which were rwd. Or a proper comparison of data between ev’s and ice for EMF?
I suggest a blind test if you can create one. Get in a P85 blindfolded and your P100 blindfolded. Have someone else drive. See if you feel any difference between the two.
Blinds for WiFi “sickness” have shown it to be psychosomatic, especially among those with the most severe symptoms.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
Thought of psychosomatic as well...not easy to prove or disprove. All I know is I’m a healthy guy, no drugs, no meds, don’t smoke, don’t drink, blood tests are all normal. Healthy. I already tested medically to rule out other medical causes. And I feel perfectly normal at all other times of my life.
Our family Naturopath also eluded to increasing EMF exposure causing quite a few adrenal and nervous system issues in many of her patients. Ie. similar to some people being sensitive to electric acupuncture or any type or current through the body. I’ve never been sensitive to cells, laptops, wifi etc. I guess for me it’s not whether the EV is the root cause of all this but moreso whether it’s a continuous contributing factor given its closed cabin environment, continuous electric flow under the seats as well as throughout the power network in the entire car, RF from the massive iPad screen etc.
I don’t know if hard data out there exists which can prove or disprove the safe vs real world levels in modern Teslas. All I know is my symptoms driving the EV vs the ICE.
Given the seats are different and the rwd dont have chill mode, I’d probably know the difference between a p85 and p100d lol. I’d say a better test may be to simply try out a few other Tesla’s and see if I feel similar. Incl a rwd 75 or older 85/P85.
This is a terrible test because you're aware of the change. It doesn't tell you anything except how your brain tells you how to feel. Any conclusive results would have to be from multiple blind tests, where you truly don't know what kind of vehicle you're in. Maybe drive in a Honda right next to the P100.
EMF hypersensitivity has been disproven as a physical illness time and time again when approached with scientifically proven methodologies. A quick Google search results in this meta of 31 different experiments (of varying size and scope): Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity: A Systematic Review of... : Psychosomatic Medicine
The end result is that those who feel seriously ill around EMF cannot tell if they're in an EMF field when blinded, which has strong implications that it's psychosomatic.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
This is a terrible test because you're aware of the change. It doesn't tell you anything except how your brain tells you how to feel. Any conclusive results would have to be from multiple blind tests, where you truly don't know what kind of vehicle you're in. Maybe drive in a Honda right next to the P100.
EMF hypersensitivity has been disproven as a physical illness time and time again when approached with scientifically proven methodologies. A quick Google search results in this meta of 31 different experiments (of varying size and scope): Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity: A Systematic Review of... : Psychosomatic Medicine
The end result is that those who feel seriously ill around EMF cannot tell if they're in an EMF field when blinded, which has strong implications that it's psychosomatic.
I understand what your saying but I’m asking for hard data on actual emf exposure within the Tesla cabin. Not whether my symptoms are mentally created!
To say that this could all be psychosomatic is a bit premature given that it’s just a theory at this point...nothing proven or concrete. I don’t want the EV to be an issue for me whatsoever and for the first 3-4 weeks utterly enjoyed every moment of it.
I’m not saying EMF is causing my issues definitively. I’m saying I’d simply like to know the levels tested within the cabin vs ice vehicles and compared to govnt tested allowable safe limits.(if that data even exists) Reasonable test data I would assume Tesla would have performed before releasing the cars into the market.
I read the link you provided and the conclusion also stated more testing would be required. I wish there was a way I could do the blind study without truly knowing which car I was in. And if I felt the same symptoms off the other car? Back to the same question:
I would like nothing more than a proper study showing what the EMF levels are within EV’s vs ICE. Specifically Tesla as they have the largest motors, batteries, inverters etc and likely the highest levels unless they provide better cabin sheilding. After that, one could then extrapolate whether the exposure is relevant or not.
Ie. prolonged exposure vs short term
Has anyone out there done a recent test?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Magnetic field strength is the inverse cube. It drops off VERY VERY quickly. B is the strength of the magnetic field in 'Teslas'. That's the unit for magnetic strength.
This is why inductive charging plates need to be so close together. Inside the cabin the dominate magnetic field is the one generated by the earth not your cars motors.
"Better Call Saul", a sort of prequel to "Breaking Bad", is great to watch, and has a major sub-plot about EMF sensitivity.
In the meantime, the very first post in this thread has some measured numbers for the Roadster. I know, you're asking about dual motor details, but it seems to me that you aren't prepared to take "irrelevant" for an answer. Or you could be answering the question for yourself for (US)$13.99. If the car is new it's more likely to be outgassing ("new car smell") than EMF.
In the meantime, the very first post in this thread has some measured numbers for the Roadster. I know, you're asking about dual motor details, but it seems to me that you aren't prepared to take "irrelevant" for an answer. Or you could be answering the question for yourself for (US)$13.99. If the car is new it's more likely to be outgassing ("new car smell") than EMF.
pilotSteve
Active Member
At the risk of inflaming the discussion.... I personally think there is a lot of validity to EMF/EMI sensitivity. Many of us have different sensitivities to temperature, noise, flavors, etc. The most interesting and relevant to me has been BioGeometry. I've found Dr. Karim's BioGeometry tools and emitters make a noticeable health improvement for my family when measured/calibrated/installed and used per his methods.
Short summary: "BioGeometry is the only science that has been effectively applied on a wide scale for the harmonization of the effect of electromagnetic fields (EMFs) and geopathic stress (Earth energy grids) on biological systems. The environmental energy harmonization of the Swiss town of Hemberg in collaboration with mobile telecommunications provider SwissCom was the first successful application of its kind in the world. The residents of Hemberg suffering from the condition of electro-sensitivity reported to the independent monitoring institution and the media that their suffering was alleviated by the implementation of the BioGeometry solutions. A second project commissioned by the Kanton of Appenzell for the town of Hirschberg confirmed the successful application with regards to electro-sensitivity, and also focused on the positive effects on the ecology, and the project was documented by Swiss TV in a documentary that was aired on Swiss national TV channel SF1."
Short summary: "BioGeometry is the only science that has been effectively applied on a wide scale for the harmonization of the effect of electromagnetic fields (EMFs) and geopathic stress (Earth energy grids) on biological systems. The environmental energy harmonization of the Swiss town of Hemberg in collaboration with mobile telecommunications provider SwissCom was the first successful application of its kind in the world. The residents of Hemberg suffering from the condition of electro-sensitivity reported to the independent monitoring institution and the media that their suffering was alleviated by the implementation of the BioGeometry solutions. A second project commissioned by the Kanton of Appenzell for the town of Hirschberg confirmed the successful application with regards to electro-sensitivity, and also focused on the positive effects on the ecology, and the project was documented by Swiss TV in a documentary that was aired on Swiss national TV channel SF1."
