Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
It's... erm... still running...?It's an electric motor, just like your refridgerator, how many miles on your fridge?
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Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I think the differential fluid has to be changed once every 10 or 12 years or something... That probably presumes 15,000 miles per year or so... Maybe once every 150,000 to 180,000 miles?
This was fun:
It's... erm... still running...?
Well then you better go catch it ....
Sorry, had to.On a related note, I called store once (I think I was like 12) and asked them if they had Prince Albert in a can, the guy that asnwered didn't miss a beat, he said, "We sure, but don't worry we let him out every night."
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Some people mock juvenile humour when they become adults. Those people are not much fun at all. The way I see it:Well then you better go catch it ....
On a related note, I called store once (I think I was like 12) and asked them if they had Prince Albert in a can, the guy that asnwered didn't miss a beat, he said, "We sure, but don't worry we let him out every night."
If it was funny in Third Grade...?
It's STILL funny!
It's STILL funny!
int32_t
Tesla Spotter
I believe the owner's manual recommends that this fluid should be changed every ten or twelve years. I also don't think that's hard-and-fast, though, sort of like the Tesla check-ups. Some people do it, others don't and Tesla doesn't have a problem with that.
Drivetrain replacements were mostly limited to the early single motor versions of the car (I have had first hand experience with those, with Tesla replacing them quickly, efficiently, and without any push back whatsoever - experience which was markedly different from my previous experiences with warranty repairs performed by other manufacturers through their stealerships). The problem(s) were seem to be resolved for the second generation units (post dual drive).
Prior to Elon Musk mentioning 1 million miles drive units, during one of the QA in Norway (as far as I remember, about a year before dual motor reveal) he indicated that drive units + battery were internally tested for 500K miles.
Prior to Elon Musk mentioning 1 million miles drive units, during one of the QA in Norway (as far as I remember, about a year before dual motor reveal) he indicated that drive units + battery were internally tested for 500K miles.
Maybe, except Drive Unit Replacement Poll is on his 8th DU.
He's not the only person w/multiple replacements. There are at least a few folks w/more replacements than this guy: 6th drive unit replacement and more.
Maybe. I'm not sure, but here instances of seemingly different probs w/the D (AWD) models:
Dual engine shut down on freeway. Anyone else?
P85D rear oil leak? WHAT
P85D Front Motor Died
thegruf
Active Member
... and most everyone else is fine
You'll always have outliers to any data set.
Tesla by their own adminssion have made design changes to improve reliability and recent cars since mid 2015 appear to be showing that if nothing else because it is rarely talked about here these days.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Not sure what all the "maybe" and "except" are about - references in your post do not contradict in any way information in mine.
This reference highlights the context which is often got overlooked every time discussion focuses on reliability: cars designed for high performance are not the most reliable, while the ones designed with reliability as a priority are not among the ones with highest performance.
This is inherent engineering optimization problem, as a car with the highest performance have more aggressive designs, with higher utilization of material properties which result in lower engineering margins.
Here is the pertinent quote from the article linked by RobStark:
"Luxury imports from Germany, such as BMW and Mercedes-Benz, along with domestic luxury brand Cadillac, are the most expensive. A Toyota is about $10,000 less expensive over 10 years, just in terms of maintenance."
As Tesla design high performance cars, the expectations of future owners should be set accordingly: as Model S performance measured against BMWs, MBs and Audi's, do not expect its reliability to be similar to Toyota's.
int32_t
Tesla Spotter
Then there are the Roadster owners who have had no issues whatsoever. It often doesn't sound like it, but they're there. There are also lots of Model S owners who have said, on this very forum, that they've had no issues since delivery and others who have had no issues since their door seals were tweaked in the weeks following delivery. Teslas can be and are reliable, but the nature of humans is to complain and not so much to make noise about good things, so we don't hear about the good so often as the bad.
That's not to contradict the fact that some vehicles have had multiple drive unit replacements. Having said that, the squeaky wheels have gotten the grease and I have heard a lot less about drive unit replacements since about April (none at all, in fact, if my memory serves me correctly.) Given what I was saying about human nature ... I think that's a good indication Tesla has got this issue nailed in a coffin for good.
That's not to contradict the fact that some vehicles have had multiple drive unit replacements. Having said that, the squeaky wheels have gotten the grease and I have heard a lot less about drive unit replacements since about April (none at all, in fact, if my memory serves me correctly.) Given what I was saying about human nature ... I think that's a good indication Tesla has got this issue nailed in a coffin for good.
For context, average problem rate chart near the bottom of Car Reliability History | Detailed Ratings - Consumer Reports represents the average problem rate for a given model year of car over a 12 month period in their most recent survey. For '15 model year cars, it's a much shorter period.
Let's hypothetically say that 90% of '14 model year Model S had no DU problems in a given year but 10% did. The would still meet your criteria of "most everyone is fine", but the probs would likely be attributed to one of the engine or drive system areas and thus would be much worse than average. A vehicle that has below average overall reliability is not an example of a reliable vehicle, in my book.
Speaking about the context, based on the statistical data collected by the Consumer Reports 2016 Tesla Model S reliability is predicted to be 43% below average, while Mercedes Benz Class S reliability is predicted to be significantly worth - 71% below average. Note that both cars have enviable 100% owners satisfaction rate.
int32_t
Tesla Spotter
Mercedes has not been known to have good reliability for MANY years and the S-Class is usually below to much below average. People here seem to like to compare reliability to BMW and Mercedes, neither of which have good reliability. Audi is also a frequent comparison, but (IIRC), they've improved from spotty to ok now.
I have no interest in buying from any of the above 3 brands due unless it's a model w/consistently average or better reliability across most (or better yet, all) model years.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
This is why I turn an incredulous eye toward those who constantly berate Tesla Motors on what they term as 'quality' concerns. When I think of the word, I consider the terms 'durability', 'dependability', and 'reliability' first and foremost. I want something that starts every time and gets me where I want to go when I need to be there. It seems that too many others use the term 'quality' to refer to 'fit and finish' or 'comfort and convenience' as it relates to 'luxury' more than anything else. I expect fit and finish to be acceptable on any new, modern car. I literally take that for granted.
A misaligned seal... A bit of stitching that isn't symmetrical... A slightly wrinkled bit of carpet... I don't see any of those as being a 'quality' issue.
Thin seats with manual controls instead of thickly padded lounge chairs with memory settings, heating, cooling, and massage elements... I don't care about any of that.
Rattling, clunking, jerking, bounding, bouncing, clanking, smoking, whistling, screaming, straining, and stopping drivetrain... Those are signs of poor quality and soon-to-come demise in my book. And those are all far more likely to take place with an ICE vehicle at some point during its 'lifetime' than any EV.
It's nice to have attention to detail. It's better to be able to prioritize things. What's most important to me is how a car RUNS. The state of the window dressing within it is very, very low on the list of priorities for me. Thing is, that ever since the venerable K-Cars it has been pretty obvious to me that Detroit in particular is perfectly willing to give you all the window dressing you crave, as long as it doesn't mean they have to improve the actual CAR ITSELF. I like that Tesla Motors wants to build the bones of the vehicle to be the best it can possibly be as a FIRST PRIORITY, because the window dressing is only add-ons anyway and can be taken care of later.
A misaligned seal... A bit of stitching that isn't symmetrical... A slightly wrinkled bit of carpet... I don't see any of those as being a 'quality' issue.
Thin seats with manual controls instead of thickly padded lounge chairs with memory settings, heating, cooling, and massage elements... I don't care about any of that.
Rattling, clunking, jerking, bounding, bouncing, clanking, smoking, whistling, screaming, straining, and stopping drivetrain... Those are signs of poor quality and soon-to-come demise in my book. And those are all far more likely to take place with an ICE vehicle at some point during its 'lifetime' than any EV.
It's nice to have attention to detail. It's better to be able to prioritize things. What's most important to me is how a car RUNS. The state of the window dressing within it is very, very low on the list of priorities for me. Thing is, that ever since the venerable K-Cars it has been pretty obvious to me that Detroit in particular is perfectly willing to give you all the window dressing you crave, as long as it doesn't mean they have to improve the actual CAR ITSELF. I like that Tesla Motors wants to build the bones of the vehicle to be the best it can possibly be as a FIRST PRIORITY, because the window dressing is only add-ons anyway and can be taken care of later.
int32_t
Tesla Spotter
Eventually will only happen if they do it before they die. Not sure if there's a precedent for Japan giving hand-outs to car companies like the US does. They led the pack in hybrids, so I don't understand where the roadblock is with making a bigger battery with faster charging, a higher-wattage motor, and a beefier inverter to make it possible to ditch the ICE entirely.
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