Daniel in SD
(supervised)
It's a level 2 system so the driver is responsible for stopping it at stop signs. Problem solved.
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Enhanced Summon coming (Elon tweet 6 Apr, 2019)
- Thread starter TChan28
- Start date
It's a level 2 system so the driver is responsible for stopping it at stop signs. Problem solved.
It's buried way, way down in the fine print where it says the feature should only be used in an empty parking lot owned by the user. Indemnity secured.
Dan203
Active Member
According to Elon self driving will be "feature complete" by the end of this year. This includes being able to drive autonomously in big cities like NY and SF.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Easy- they moved the bulk of EAPs features into it.
If you want most of what previously folks were happy to pay between 5-7k for (depending on when you bought it) in EAP it's now 6k to get those PLUS the future HW upgrade and future added features.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
A good chunk of Tesla employees must live in SF. Do they honestly believe they're going to be able to autonomously navigate this mess? Zooming around Sand Hill Rd. is one thing. Real urban driving is going to be HW4 and called FSD+...
In the very same breath he said they'd start winter training for AP at the end of 2019. Elon was wrong. FSD is harder than he realizes. It's not going to be solved this year, next year doesn't look too good either, and in fact many experts in the field believe that true level 5 autonomy may never actually be achieved.
Dan203
Active Member
I watched the entire presentation on autonomy. It appears their entire plan is to use computer vision to make computers drive like humans. If they can actually pull that off then they will have solved one of the biggest problems in AI and robotics. This technology wouldn't just apply to cars. If they can actually teach a computer to navigate the world based on vision it will be revolutionary for the entire robotics industry. Drones could deliver packages without worrying about power lines or porches, a mini Tesla could walk your dog, your Roomba could vacuum the room without sucking up your phone cable or dirty socks. It would truly change the world. I just don't see that happening by the end of the year.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I don't know, sometimes my dogs just straight up refuse to Summon.
Dan203
Active Member
Mine will occasionally look right at me and then turn and run the other way.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yes Elon said "feature complete" by the end of this year but I seriously doubt that "feature complete" will be able to drive autonomously in big cities like NY or SF. In software engineering, "feature complete" means all the primary features have been coded and the software is ready to enter beta. So, "feature complete" for Tesla probably means that the "FSD" features on the website such as traffic light and stop sign detection and "automatic city driving" have been coded and "FSD" is ready to enter beta. And Elon has said that "feature complete" will require driver supervision until it is reliable enough. So I doubt that "feature complete" will be driving autonomously in a complex urban environment like NY or SF. My understanding is that "feature complete" will essentially be L2 Autopilot that can handle traffic lights and intersections with driver supervision. It will only become autonomous later as Tesla improves the system and makes it more reliable.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Also, even after software is out of beta, well past feature complete, driving autonomously is not a guaranteed feature of FSD. It's not required at all, ever, since FSD is a level 2 system. Tesla will not deliver autonomous driving with FSD unless it is proven to be much safer than human drivers. And if it's not, that's no big deal for them, as they haven't promised autonomy (to recent buyers anyway).
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's absolutely a guaranteed feature of FSD for those of us who purchased before the changeover from EAP/FSD to AP/FSD where they totally changed the promised features for new buyers.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Emphasis just added...this was intended to cover my entire original post...
Fortunately they won't have too many of the old guard to compensate, if the march of the 9's doesn't go as planned.
I don't even look at the old verbiage that was sold (I do know it was different!!!), but I assume they didn't have the caveats in there about it being contingent on being safer than a human driver. I know screen captures have been posted elsewhere!
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Emphasis just added...this was intended to cover my entire original post...
Fortunately they won't have too many of the old guard to compensate, if the march of the 9's doesn't go as planned.
I don't even look at the old verbiage that was sold (I do know it was different!!!), but I assume they didn't have the caveats in there about it being contingent on being safer than a human driver. I know screen captures have been posted elsewhere!
If they wanna refund my FSD money and "only" give me the stuff in "new" FSD I'm fine with that.
Honestly if they kept my FSD money and only ever gave me L3 or L4 on highways only I'd be fine with it, my entire 75+ mile daily drive only involves like 2 stoplights and 1 stop sign anyway.
Anyway the FSD verbage originally promised "full self driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver" and stated
"the system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat. For superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.
All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don't say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on your calendar.
Your tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without line markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed.
When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you"
The disclaimer was "Please note that self-driving functionality is dependent on extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval"
Of course 100% of that functionality is already regulatory approved in a number of states if it actually existed.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
@Knightshade and other early FSD purchasers:
Do you really believe that the FSD that Tesla will ultimately give you will be different from what they end up giving to FSD buyers post-EAP/FSD change? i.e., Will you keep getting FSD updates beyond newer purchasers?
or
Will it be that the early buyers just have more legal standing to pursue compensation if/when Tesla "completes" FSD and comes up short of the promises made to earlier buyers?
Do you really believe that the FSD that Tesla will ultimately give you will be different from what they end up giving to FSD buyers post-EAP/FSD change? i.e., Will you keep getting FSD updates beyond newer purchasers?
or
Will it be that the early buyers just have more legal standing to pursue compensation if/when Tesla "completes" FSD and comes up short of the promises made to earlier buyers?
That's not entirely true. At parking lot speeds, the ultrasonic sensors will tell you that there's something there even if the machine vision algorithms don't.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's quite that binary- I think what they promised me is their actual goal.... but what they promise now is a more realistic version of what they think they can deliver in the short term (by end of year being the listed target for the current list of coming soon features).
I think if they solve for what I was promised with current (incl. HW3) hardware then everyone new and old with FSD will get it- but that that isn't a given.
I think if they solve for what I was promised but it requires additional future HW (upgraded cameras, or HW4, or whatever) to do it then I would get those free (indeed, such HW upgrades were even promised to FSD HW2 buyers if 2.5 was deemed "needed" for real FSD) but that "new" FSD buyers might NOT be entitled to such free upgrades....
And I think if they decide that's "too expensive" or that they simply can't in any remotely timely fashion solve for that then old buyers would be entitled to some degree of refund (possibly a full one while keeping existing FSD features) but "new" buyers would not since they were never promised anything more than Tesla delivered.
That's not entirely true. At parking lot speeds, the ultrasonic sensors will tell you that there's something there even if the machine vision algorithms don't.
Sort of like a low-power, low quality, low resolution radar. Which works at greater distances and at highway speeds. Again, if you've cracked this nut for parking lots, you've solved FSD.
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