EVGo Throttling Experience anyone?

[NoBeard]

Anyone here use EVGo chargers regularly? We're about to go on a roadtrip with a trailer and are looking at filling the SC gaps with alternative chargers.

From The EVGo Website...

EVgo EV Charging Resources| What is Electric Vehicle Charging

FAST CHARGING ETIQUETTE...

2. Make sure your vehicle is less than 50% at charge level.
and
7. Note that if you do not need to charge that long, you should leave earlier to accommodate other EV drivers. Your vehicle will charge at a lower kWh if it is above 50%. It will not use the kWh fast charging capability, but will charge at a Level 2.

So if I'm part way through the mountains and are pretty sure we'll need to be at 85% to make it to the next SC, and get to this charger with 55%, so need about 25 kwh added it will only charge at level 2? Really?
30 minute boost is needed, but as they say they limit to Level 2 above 50% we would need to sit for a few hours?

Anyone run into this before?
I've sent them an email to confirm, haven't heard back yet.

Thanks,
NB

 

[Rocky_H]

FAST CHARGING ETIQUETTE...

2. Make sure your vehicle is less than 50% at charge level.
and
7. Note that if you do not need to charge that long, you should leave earlier to accommodate other EV drivers. Your vehicle will charge at a lower kWh if it is above 50%. It will not use the kWh fast charging capability, but will charge at a Level 2.

So if I'm part way through the mountains and are pretty sure we'll need to be at 85% to make it to the next SC, and get to this charger with 55%, so need about 25 kwh added it will only charge at level 2? Really?
30 minute boost is needed, but as they say they limit to Level 2 above 50% we would need to sit for a few hours?

Anyone run into this before?
I've sent them an email to confirm, haven't heard back yet.

I just read it, and I think I know what is going on. It is just ignorance, written by someone who doesn't understand the technology. It was probably explained to a marketing or web design person, who typed up the description, but since they didn't really understand it very well, they got the description horribly wrong. There's an indication of it by the incorrect units, where they are using kWh to refer to a power level, rather than kW.

Let me try to translate what #2 and #7 are supposed to be saying based on how battery and charging technology really works:
Overall principle: They're talking about etiquette, so how to make the best, most efficient use of people's time on the charging stations. So people should try to use the charging that is fastest for them at that time, while allowing others to use the faster charging resources if they can use them better. EV batteries do charge faster when they are under 50% full, so they are saying that is the better time to use a CHAdeMO or CCS port, when you can make fastest use of it.
#7 If you are over 50%, your car is generally going to be tapering down the charging rate, so it will be getting slower anyway. They are saying that when you are getting up there into the slow tapering range, your car isn't making the best use of a DC fast charger, and you're kind of blocking it, where someone else could use it better. So they are pointing out that your car could still be pulling the full rate from a Level 2 station, so that would be the more appropriate one to use when you are at a higher %.

They are trying to discourage where people roll in at 70 or 80% to do a bit of a slow top-up and then hook up to a CHAdeMO or CCS instead of the Level 2 stations. It's not about them throttling you on the same plug, because there isn't any plug type on any of the charging stations that will switch from DC to AC type of charging.

 

[miimura]

It is also written from the perspective of a Nissan Leaf where the DC charging can actually be as slow as L2 above 80%. A Tesla vehicle can still pull 40kW at 80%, depending on which battery you have.

 

[mociaf9]

They are talking about the effects of tapering, not about throttling the charge rate. It's not saying that the EVGo side will limit your charging speed, it's trying to say that your car's BMS will limit the rate at which the battery can accept charging at higher SOC. As a result, cars at a higher SOC will end up charging at a rate that is either equal to or very close to L2 charging. And hence, since your car can't make use of the higher kW a DCFC station can put out that you should therefore leave such charging stations open to those who can make full use of its capabilities and instead you should charge at an L2 station.

 

[miimura]

They are talking about the effects of tapering, not about throttling the charge rate. It's not saying that the EVGo side will limit your charging speed, it's trying to say that your car's BMS will limit the rate at which the battery can accept charging at higher SOC. As a result, cars at a higher SOC will end up charging at a rate that is either equal to or very close to L2 charging. And hence, since your car can't make use of the higher kW a DCFC station can put out that you should therefore leave such charging stations open to those who can make full use of its capabilities and instead you should charge at an L2 station.

Honestly, the per-minute pricing already encourages you to stop charging at high SOC if you're paying any attention at all. Of course, free chargers encourage all kinds of bad behavior, not the least of which is charging to 100%.

 

[SageBrush]

It is also written from the perspective of a Nissan Leaf where the DC charging can actually be as slow as L2 above 80%. A Tesla vehicle can still pull 40kW at 80%, depending on which battery you have.

This.

 

[NoBeard]

Good to know they don't throttle. At 50% SOC our 75D can easily pull 30-40 kW on Chademo, best L2 I've seen is 12ish. Yes at 80% it starts to diminish, but really it's nearly 90% before it gets down to L2 speed.

 

[SageBrush]

Good to know they don't throttle. At 50% SOC our 75D can easily pull 30-40 kW on Chademo, best L2 I've seen is 12ish. Yes at 80% it starts to diminish, but really it's nearly 90% before it gets down to L2 speed.

Yep. My Model 3 LR can pull 50 kW at 248 miles of charge = 80% SoC

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RQ1stevrRYQqsejs6

 

[im.thatoneguy]

Also 80A 240V aka 19kw is "L2". But so is 24A 240 aka 5.5kw. So technically yeah a lot of batteries will hit L2 high amp speeds but not public L2 charger speeds.

 

[David99]

EVgo seems to live in the past. Tesla Model S and X have been on the road for 5-7 years now. Their batteries are so big that it takes aprox 2 hours to charge to 90% on any of EVGo DC stations. The Chevy Bolt has been out for a few years now as well. All EVs sold today have at least 60 kWh batteries. The trend is larger batteries. It is beyond me why EVGo think it's a good idea to cut off the charging session automatically after 30 min. Recently they extended it to 45 min (60 min at night). It just makes no sense. There is also no way to remotely start the session again. You have to come back to the station and start the charger again.

 

[PLUS EV]

EVgo seems to live in the past. Tesla Model S and X have been on the road for 5-7 years now. Their batteries are so big that it takes aprox 2 hours to charge to 90% on any of EVGo DC stations. The Chevy Bolt has been out for a few years now as well. All EVs sold today have at least 60 kWh batteries. The trend is larger batteries. It is beyond me why EVGo think it's a good idea to cut off the charging session automatically after 30 min. Recently they extended it to 45 min (60 min at night). It just makes no sense. There is also no way to remotely start the session again. You have to come back to the station and start the charger again.

This is precisely why I never use them.

Strangely, in my area there are often FREE level 2 chargers next to the pay for use Chademo chargers at EVGo stations. I would be willing to pay to get a somewhat quick full charge on the Chademo, but due to the time limit (and the fact that I rarely get more than 40kW with the Chademo adapter), it's never worth it to use the Chademo and then have to come back out 30 minutes later to either move the car or re-start another charge, so I just use the FREE level 2 chargers when the opportunity presents itself.

My read on the situation is that they were basically only thinking of Nissan Leafs when they designed these stations.

 

[Rocky_H]

My read on the situation is that they were basically only thinking of Nissan Leafs when they designed these stations.

Definitely. If anyone has seen the marketing materials for any of the 80-ish mile compliance electric cars over the last several years, they wouldn't state actual charging power or battery size. They always just said, "Fill to 80% in 30 minutes!"

 

[David99]

It's just odd to me that they are so reluctant to adjust to current times and demand. Obviously they realized 30 min isn't enough but they only increased the time limit to 45 min. That's still not enough. But to make things worse, it just cuts off the charge session. They don't have idle fees. There is no reason for the owner to come back to his car to move it. So what happens is the charge sessions ends before the car is full and then it just sits there.

 

[miimura]

Actually, I think this is how people who use these stations want it to work. I think most people would not have any qualms about unplugging a car that was no longer charging and the owner was not present. These people also don't want "their stations" to be used by the hordes of Tesla Model 3's that are around, especially in California. They are quite happy that there is no adapter for the Model 3 to DCFC on industry standard stations. That way, they only have to fight for access with their own kind and the Tesla owners can use the Supercharger network for their fast charging needs.

Since you can now start a station with the EVgo app, I see no reason why you would not be able to re-start charging from the app too. The timed cutoff is only a minor annoyance for someone that really needs to fill a car with a larger battery.

 

[PLUS EV]

Since you can now start a station with the EVgo app, I see no reason why you would not be able to re-start charging from the app too. The timed cutoff is only a minor annoyance for someone that really needs to fill a car with a larger battery.

Have you ever actually used a Chademo adapter?

I doubt that would work.

 

[NoBeard]

Have you ever actually used a Chademo adapter?

I doubt that would work.

Interesting question, we have to Chademo within the next few days and the NB Power app has a start charging button I think, I'll do a connection and try starting remotely from the Tim's.

 

[David99]

Since you can now start a station with the EVgo app, I see no reason why you would not be able to re-start charging from the app too. The timed cutoff is only a minor annoyance for someone that really needs to fill a car with a larger battery.

I will test this next time I use one of these stations. I just don't see any reason to cut off a charging session by a random time limit. It helps in no way or situation.

 

[miimura]

I will test this next time I use one of these stations. I just don't see any reason to cut off a charging session by a random time limit. It helps in no way or situation.

With EVgo's original rate plans, there were session fees. You had to pay another $4.95 for another 30 minutes. At that time, it made sense that they did not automatically charge you that fee again, especially if you turned up 2 minutes later to disconnect. Now that they don't have session fees, I agree that the time cutoffs are mostly nonsense. As the proportion of users that have large batteries increases, they will probably change this policy. They will have to address capacity in other ways, like installing higher power chargers to fill those cars faster. They have already installed two sites in the Bay Area that are "100kW" stations. Of course, for Tesla owners, they are still limited to 50kW by the CHAdeMO adapter.

 

[PLUS EV]

Interesting question, we have to Chademo within the next few days and the NB Power app has a start charging button I think, I'll do a connection and try starting remotely from the Tim's.

Even if this works in NB, that doesn't necessarily mean it will work with the dreadful EVGo system.

 

[Cheburashka]

I've charged to 100% with evGO, never been cut off.