Exotic Driver just posted their P85+ Model S review with some awesome footage

[ChadS]

I was told (before I bought the car) that the seats are on industry-standard tracks, so it "should" be easy to find other seats and bolt them in.

Of course there's more than the physical connection...the seats also have sensors and adjustment motors and heaters and...they don't have airbags, do they? It's all curtains in the Model S? Anyway, there's more stuff to consider, so not any seat will do (although I hope there's a standard connector for all the electrical stuff too). But replacements should be available.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Are there any aftermarket high end seats available?

Not yet. The problem is that we don't yet know what happens when the car knows the seat is missing. The main sensor used to start the car is in the seat, so that will definitely require some special design because it's not something any other car has. Then you have the memory power seat adjustments that could freak out the infotainment system if they're missing. And airbags, if so equipped (no Model S yet, but most manufacturers put the front side airbags in the seats).

So it could be done, but will require at least some custom fabrication.

 

[Otmar]

no Model S yet, but most manufacturers put the front side airbags in the seats

I think you'll find that the Tesla Model S has side curtain airbags in addition to the ones that come out of the seats, you can see them deployed in this picture. I'm expect the occupants were thankful they were installed. It seems that "10 airbags" only counts the side curtain air bags, which protect both front and rear passengers, as one per side. I sure appreciate the thorough coverage of the safety systems in the Model S.

https://www.iaai.com/VehicleImages/20131025/332/81/11783181/11783181_5_I.jpeg

 

[J1mbo]

I wonder how much P85+ performance for "canyon carving" could be improved with true performance seats in the front. The lack of lateral support has been noted by a number of reviewers and owners. Seems like this could be a simple upgrade for Tesla.

They would have to put the car through crash testing again if they fundamentally change the seats.

Seeing as they will be doing that for the RHD cars anyway, now seems like a good time to do that. More lateral and lumber support please!!!

 

[wormhole]

Did anyone else hear them say that the Fisker Karma has better handling than the P85+?

Agreed, that's a joke. I test drove a Karma, was a piece of garbage.

- - - Updated - - -

That's what he said.
Then again, I might expect that because the Karma is a 2 seater sports car and the Model S is a luxury sedan.
A better comparison would be against a Lexus LS460. Either way, the MS is superior.

The Karma is, make that was not a 2 seat sports car, its a 4-door for 4 passengers...

 

[Gizmotoy]

I think you'll find that the Tesla Model S has side curtain airbags in addition to the ones that come out of the seats, you can see them deployed in this picture.

Yup. Side airbags are always paired with curtain bags, with a few notable exceptions. That's not Tesla-specific, it's pretty much industry standard. But since I was discussing seat replacement, the curtain bags weren't really relevant.

 

[dennis]

I've driven all 3 cars (P85, P85+, Karma) 1000's of miles on the same roads including carving some canyons. Here are my conclusions.

The Fisker Karma handles better than the P85. The understeer and high speed lane change "floatiness" of the P85 are well documented on other threads.

The P85+ handles better than the Karma. In fact it handles better than the BMW M5 , which set the standard for large sedan handling. The P85+ is stable and predictable at all speeds, does exactly what you tell it to do and no more, and has more lateral grip than seems possible for a large sedan.

I don't know what benchmark Tesla set for the P85, but the handling benchmark that Fisker set for the Karma was the M5. What they were able to achieve with a 5600 lb. sedan and the limited suspension envelope dictated by the concept car lines of the Karma is a tribute to their chassis engineering team.

The handling benchmark for the P85+ was the McLaren MP4-12C. (This after Elon, dissatisfied with the P85 handling, took has head of chassis engineering down the road from Tesla HQ to the McLaren dealership in Palo Alto. After both had driven the 12C, he said "this is how I want our cars to handle"). No the 4600 lb P85+ doesn't handle as well as the 2 seat mid engine 3200 lb 12C, but it is now the best handling large sedan IMO.

Putting my money where my mouth is, I sold my Karma and put part of the proceeds into having Tesla retrofit the P+ suspension to my Signature P85. It is now my daily driver and I am blissfully wearing away the Michelin PS2's on every freeway entry and exit ramp I encounter. :biggrin:

 

[aviators99]

They talk so much about the utilization of space, but don't show the frunk???

 

[brianman]

The Fisker Karma handles better than the P85. The understeer and high speed lane change "floatiness" of the P85 are well documented on other threads.

The P85+ handles better than the Karma. In fact it handles better than the BMW M5 , which set the standard for large sedan handling. The P85+ is stable and predictable at all speeds, does exactly what you tell it to do and no more, and has more lateral grip than seems possible for a large sedan.

The review was of the P85+. Do you think the owner should have Tesla look at the car to see what the reviewers were talking about? Or do you think it's just a reviewer over/understatement thing?

 

[Linux64]

They talk so much about the utilization of space, but don't show the frunk???

They are going to post another video focusing on the interior.

 

[brianman]

They are going to post another video focusing on the interior.

Cool. Look forward to it.

 

[jvonbokel]

I opened this thread hoping to see "some awesome footage" of the "exotic driver." Instead of seeing some pics of a motor honey draped over the hood, I get posts about alignment and handling. What ever happened to truth in advertising?

You're telling me. At first glance I misread it as "exotic dancer".

 

[DIL]

The handling benchmark for the P85+ was the McLaren MP4-12C. (This after Elon, dissatisfied with the P85 handling, took has head of chassis engineering down the road from Tesla HQ to the McLaren dealership in Palo Alto. After both had driven the 12C, he said "this is how I want our cars to handle"). No the 4600 lb P85+ doesn't handle as well as the 2 seat mid engine 3200 lb 12C, but it is now the best handling large sedan IMO.
...blissfully wearing away the Michelin PS2's on every freeway entry and exit ramp I encounter. :biggrin:

Awesome background.

 

[brianman]

Once again, darn you dennis for tempting us again.

 

[Nin ja]

Agreed, that's a joke. I test drove a Karma, was a piece of garbage.

now now, no need to get hostile on the Karma, to each his own; while I agree the car was not ready to be delivered, it's far from being garbage. For many owners , it's the ideal car, for you, it's not your cup of tea.

The Karma is, make that was not a 2 seat sports car, its a 4-door for 4 passengers...

yes it has 4 doors, but two would of been enough, in a 2+2 configuration, the Karma whould of been much nicer and practical.

 

[Nin ja]

Did anyone else hear them say that the Fisker Karma has better handling than the P85+?

here is the review of the karma from the same duo - Fisker Karma Driving Review - Exotic Driver - YouTube

 

[astrotoy]

I saw one of the guys scrunch into the rear jump seats. Anyone have an adult (and not a midget) squeeze into the rear seats while driving?

 

[Doug_G]

I saw one of the guys scrunch into the rear jump seats. Anyone have an adult (and not a midget) squeeze into the rear seats while driving?

Yeah, a few months ago we had six people and one Tesla (a friend's, not mine), and needed to travel just a couple of kilometers. One of the guys got into the jump seat. It was pretty hilarious, he was basically sprawled sideways across the two seats. I thought he was loonie, but we made the trip.

I think it would have been easier without the jump seats.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I think it would have been easier without the jump seats.

It's true. Just lay down back there. That area is huge.

 

[dennis]

The review was of the P85+. Do you think the owner should have Tesla look at the car to see what the reviewers were talking about? Or do you think it's just a reviewer over/understatement thing?

Well, I certainly disagree with the reviewer that there is an initial sway when entering a corner with the P85+. My experience with my car is that it takes a set immediately upon turn in, unlike the P85. And I disagree that the Fisker karma handles better than P85+. So it might be worthwhile for the owner to have Tesla check the alignment given the reports that we have seen on other threads.