Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • The final cut of the 9th episode of the Tesla Motors Club Podcast, featuring Balazs Biro, of the prominent Hungarian EV channel Villanyautósok, is now available. You can watch it now on YouTube or listen to it on all major podcast networks.

Extreme phantom braking event tonight. No TACC or Autosteer

I guess, the description of the deviation is more than sufficient for Tesla to approach a simulation of the issues. We are users not test drivers, even though I am not sure about the latter.
I will have "education " for the pb issue by fixing the loose mud flaps at the mobile service appointment.
But already the fact to be able to choose a different speed then the present speed when dialing in the cruise control can lead to a more than hairy result. How can you remember your setting from hours ago when changing speed while having cruise control engaged.The German term is Lebensfremd...alien to the life.
 

rjpjnk

Active Member
Mar 12, 2021
1,215
788
NJ
Well if we had a dictionary with a reference list of all topics and their strict definitions, then yeah, we could be more precise and a lot more efficient but we don't. So we do the best we can. Still, I am up for standardizing it.

For example of confusion, you mention collision avoidance, but I have not been able to find this term on the MY menus. I do see Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB). I suspect these are the same. What do you think Earl? Why do you call it collision avoidance. Is this an official term?

What is the name we will agree to use for when the car slams the brakes on needlessly by mistake? 'Cause I really don't like when my car does this, and I desperately want to call it something with confidence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: laservet

WhiteWi

Active Member
Supporting Member
Feb 21, 2021
1,718
1,607
Planet X
Apparently Tesla earned top safety score while trolls keep on saying how dangerous vision only Teslas. Next.
“Dec 21 (Reuters) - The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) said Tuesday the 2021-22 model year Tesla Model Y received its Top Safety Pick+ designation.

Following a conversion to a camera-only system, IIHS said the mid-size SUV's standard front crash prevention system earned superior ratings in both the vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-pedestrian tests.”
 

rjpjnk

Active Member
Mar 12, 2021
1,215
788
NJ
Apparently Tesla earned top safety score while trolls keep on saying how dangerous vision only Teslas. Next.
“Dec 21 (Reuters) - The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) said Tuesday the 2021-22 model year Tesla Model Y received its Top Safety Pick+ designation.

Following a conversion to a camera-only system, IIHS said the mid-size SUV's standard front crash prevention system earned superior ratings in both the vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-pedestrian tests.”
What is your point? Are you calling someone here a troll? I hope not.
 

rjpjnk

Active Member
Mar 12, 2021
1,215
788
NJ
In my case it saved the footage automatically but that may be due to my settings under dashcam.

Anyway, just got 2021.44.6 last night, so many fun new things to try out today (coming from 2021.36.5). Always the possibility AEB was tweaked a bit. That's the great thing about Tesla, it gets better with age :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: GeezerSquid
I've read a lot of posts about phantom braking but it never really concerned me much because up until today I had only experience minor and infrequent events.

Tonight, however, my car really scared me. It slammed on the brakes to the point that the wheels locked up slightly and the car fishtailed a bit to the left. I was not using either cruise control or Autosteer at the time. Just plain old fashioned driving by hand at 35 mph. It was dark, and a pickup truck was approaching in the opposite lane of a hilly two-lane country highway. We were on a straight portion of the road both heading down toward a low point, and just as the truck passed my Model Y slammed on the brakes and the system started beeping and screaming it's very loud alarm signal. Also an indication popped up on the screen that Dashcam footage was being saved.

Fortunately I was driving slowly and it was easy to regain control, but what the heck?!! That was bad! I assume it was the collision avoidance system that was responsible since TACC and AP were not in use. I believe I have only experience phantom braking when AP was active in the past so this seemed unusual. And I have never experienced braking this hard. Is this normal?

Since I know the exact timestamp and have dashcam footage do you think I should contact Tesla? I've watched the footage a few times and there is absolutely no reason I can see that collision avoidance should have been activated.

Car is a 2021 Vision Only Model Y LR.
I picked up my Tesla 3 10 days ago and just took it on my first road trip 300 miles up the eastern Sierras of California to Mammoth Mountain. Using TACC I had 6-7 very frightening times of sudden declaration. 3-4 of this episode were on dips and crest of the rolling two lane highway. I had to shut off my cruise control TACC to avoid frightening my wife and I. Am frustrated that I cannot use standard cruise control.. driving 300 miles without cruise control was tiring. Any solutions?
 
  • Like
Reactions: FastEddieB

WhiteWi

Active Member
Supporting Member
Feb 21, 2021
1,718
1,607
Planet X
I picked up my Tesla 3 10 days ago and just took it on my first road trip 300 miles up the eastern Sierras of California to Mammoth Mountain. Using TACC I had 6-7 very frightening times of sudden declaration. 3-4 of this episode were on dips and crest of the rolling two lane highway. I had to shut off my cruise control TACC to avoid frightening my wife and I. Am frustrated that I cannot use standard cruise control.. driving 300 miles without cruise control was tiring. Any solutions?
Don’t use it on two lane hwy. finished 2k miles round trip and had not more 4 slowdowns but I knew exactly what triggered it (safety over comfort).
 

rjpjnk

Active Member
Mar 12, 2021
1,215
788
NJ
I picked up my Tesla 3 10 days ago and just took it on my first road trip 300 miles up the eastern Sierras of California to Mammoth Mountain. Using TACC I had 6-7 very frightening times of sudden declaration. 3-4 of this episode were on dips and crest of the rolling two lane highway. I had to shut off my cruise control TACC to avoid frightening my wife and I. Am frustrated that I cannot use standard cruise control.. driving 300 miles without cruise control was tiring. Any solutions?
Were these TACC events or AEB events? How rapid was the deceleration? In my case it was like slamming on the brakes, so the consensus seems to be it was a phantom Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) event and not TACC related. AEB system can be turned off while still using TACC if you like.

If the car just slowed down slightly it was likely TACC reacting to some phantom object it thinks was in the road. Just wait till you get to experience the full AEB. Good times! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: tm1v2
I've read a lot of posts about phantom braking but it never really concerned me much because up until today I had only experience minor and infrequent events.

Tonight, however, my car really scared me. It slammed on the brakes to the point that the wheels locked up slightly and the car fishtailed a bit to the left. I was not using either cruise control or Autosteer at the time. Just plain old fashioned driving by hand at 35 mph. It was dark, and a pickup truck was approaching in the opposite lane of a hilly two-lane country highway. We were on a straight portion of the road both heading down toward a low point, and just as the truck passed my Model Y slammed on the brakes and the system started beeping and screaming it's very loud alarm signal. Also an indication popped up on the screen that Dashcam footage was being saved.

Fortunately I was driving slowly and it was easy to regain control, but what the heck?!! That was bad! I assume it was the collision avoidance system that was responsible since TACC and AP were not in use. I believe I have only experience phantom braking when AP was active in the past so this seemed unusual. And I have never experienced braking this hard. Is this normal?

Since I know the exact timestamp and have dashcam footage do you think I should contact Tesla? I've watched the footage a few times and there is absolutely no reason I can see that collision avoidance should have been activated.

Car is a 2021 Vision Only Model Y LR.
I was told to push the mic button and say ‘bug’ as soon as safely possible and this will go to Tesla. May be worth a try.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rjpjnk

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
6,856
13,439
Springfield, VA
I picked up my Tesla 3 10 days ago and just took it on my first road trip 300 miles up the eastern Sierras of California to Mammoth Mountain. Using TACC I had 6-7 very frightening times of sudden declaration. 3-4 of this episode were on dips and crest of the rolling two lane highway. I had to shut off my cruise control TACC to avoid frightening my wife and I. Am frustrated that I cannot use standard cruise control.. driving 300 miles without cruise control was tiring. Any solutions?

When it happens, you can override it by pressing the accelerator. If there are places were it consistently happens, you can preemptively override it by pressing the accelerator.

Congrats on your new car. Some of the functions and features have a bit of a learning curve. Some things still frustrate long-time owners but there are work-arounds that make them better.
 
Hello Everyone,

greets from Ontario.

regarding the phantom braking apperances, I have to join the subject. I have a 2022 M3LR, received last saturday 18. Dec. 2021.
Yesterday evening , I was driving the route London, ON to Toronto Airport and back on the 401 Highway. The complete drive was after sunset. The set speed in cruise control only (110 to 120 kmh) , without autosteering. I do not have FSD.

The phantom braking did appear really out of the blue cruising with 110kmh when getting close to off-ramps, being on the most right snail lane. It appears, as if the car sees the speed limit signs at the off ramp and tries to obey. I do not think the brakes were applied, but the energy recovery braking slowed the car down from 110 to 90, even the cruise control was changed to the setting of 80 kmph.
I believe, the auto AEB, as described in the previous mesage from rjpjink was set on as well.
I do have the FSD auto recognition activated though.

The auto steering, I guess its called here Autopilot (beta) was not activated as the feature does activate the high beams in a erratic fashion, which does not comply with my high beam behaviour, being more moderate with it. I really do not understand the matter behind this kind of operational need to take over the high beams for the auto pilot option. Is the car blind at night to operate to have the need for the high beams with this ?
Just FYI there are some spots on the 401 now where they are widening lanes from Milton to Mississauga that have messed up the car's interpretation of what road you're actually on. There's a weigh station that doesn't exist anymore that registers a 40km/hr speed limit for example. Autopilot will definitely react and TACC from my experience sometimes reacts and sometimes doesn't (maybe it also uses awareness of traffic speed of other cars around the vehicle...who knows).
 

cgell

Member
Supporting Member
Jan 30, 2020
329
437
NJ
I was told to push the mic button and say ‘bug’ as soon as safely possible and this will go to Tesla. May be worth a try.
The bug report is only stored locally, so it is not sent to Tesla. It would have to be checked by the service center. Also, it does not include autopilot data. It only uses infotainment data. Seems silly, but that’s how it works.
 
Apparently Tesla earned top safety score while trolls keep on saying how dangerous vision only Teslas. Next.
“Dec 21 (Reuters) - The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) said Tuesday the 2021-22 model year Tesla Model Y received its Top Safety Pick+ designation.

Following a conversion to a camera-only system, IIHS said the mid-size SUV's standard front crash prevention system earned superior ratings in both the vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-pedestrian tests.”
Safety scores is based on how it does in a crash not how it drives. The front crash avoidance doesn’t track you getting rear ended because of FALSE breaking. You should know that. More so stop being a Tesla fan boy and admit there is an issue with their vision system with braking. You can call it KNOWN breaking issue or phantom breaking or whatever the he** you want. It’s a problem and can lead to accidents. Tesla is playing with fire by having removed the radar and going to vision only. There are tons of YouTube videos on this so it is a known issue. If just a matter of time before someone gets rear ended as a result of this breaking issue and dies.
 

cgell

Member
Supporting Member
Jan 30, 2020
329
437
NJ
Safety scores is based on how it does in a crash not how it drives. The front crash avoidance doesn’t track you getting rear ended because of FALSE breaking. You should know that. More so stop being a Tesla fan boy and admit there is an issue with their vision system with braking. You can call it KNOWN breaking issue or phantom breaking or whatever the he** you want. It’s a problem and can lead to accidents. Tesla is playing with fire by having removed the radar and going to vision only. There are tons of YouTube videos on this so it is a known issue. If just a matter of time before someone gets rear ended as a result of this breaking issue and dies.
Safety scores are not just for crash tests. Collision avoidance and other safety features are also rated - that's why the quote mentions vehicle and pedestrian tests. All cars with collision avoidance will incorrectly brake sometimes, radar or not, Tesla or not. Not ideal, but hitting a car/stationary object in front of you is much less ideal. And the IIHS seems to think it's best to have this system in place, so I can assume they did a bit of research beyond YouTube and forums.

I know some people may be triggered by this, but... if someone hits you from behind then they are responsible since they followed too closely. Same as if you braked manually to avoid an actual obstacle. Even if the driver behind you doesn't see it, they are responsible for maintaining enough space to slow down safely. Also, it seems that most false braking events occur on undivided roads where autopilot is not technically supposed to be used yet. I have not had a problem with it, and the one time the car braked for a large chunk of ice in the road I simply pressed the accelerator and kept going.

It's definitely not perfect, but it's certainly better than having no safety systems in place. I'm not saying that people aren't having issues with it, even when used in a proper setting such as a divided highway, but suggesting it's more dangerous than no system at all is not accurate in my opinion (and IIHS's opinion). There is a reason that almost all new cars have these systems even though none of them are perfect. They will avoid many more accidents than they cause.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top